I HATE MY BLOODY EOS WITH A VENGEANCE. Yet again the f**ing DPF has failed. My wife is trying to drive back all the way from north wales to Cardiff on a wet dark cold night, and has telephoned to say that the bloody DPF light has come on. I hate this bloody car. Again and again, costing money but more crucially confidence, as well as inconbloodyvenience, the DPF has failed. This car is a joke.

Never a diesel again.

AND NEVER A VW AGAIN.

EVER

A breif history of my vehicles.. as diverse as it is.. I hope my point is clear at the end of this....
1980 Dodge Aspen... had a white Ceramic ballast that would fail & cut out all ability for the car to start.. you had to keep a spare in the glovebox ... 1984 Dodge Omni - leaked around both A-pillars.. (not a convertible)... 1986 LeBaron GTS - Electronic Dash went dark... no gauges or speedo! ... 1988 Dodge Lancer Shelby blew a turbo hose during a full acceleration romp.... Scared the crap outta me.... 1992 Dodge Dakota .. All the paint peeled off the roof... 1997 Chev Malibu ... New head Gasket ... 2000 Chev Malibu clattered more than a Diesel on start up.. bought back by GM ... 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue.. Absolutely no problems - great car - kept it for 7 years... 2004 Chev Silverado... Failed to start during a snow storm taking my Dad to his Radiation treatments! Took a day for the dealer to fix - nothing!... 2007 Honda Odyssey - Computer Module took out TPMS & ABS... $1400.00 thank heavens for extended warranty. All the vehicles were brand new when purchased...

My Point... All brands have issues. I am not trying to diffuse the posters aingst... but share it amongst a broader inventory of models & brands.

A breif history of my vehicles.. as diverse as it is.. I hope my point is clear at the end of this....
1980 Dodge Aspen... had a white Ceramic ballast that would fail & cut out all ability for the car to start.. you had to keep a spare in the glovebox ... 1984 Dodge Omni - leaked around both A-pillars.. (not a convertible)... 1986 LeBaron GTS - Electronic Dash went dark... no gauges or speedo! ... 1988 Dodge Lancer Shelby blew a turbo hose during a full acceleration romp.... Scared the crap outta me.... 1992 Dodge Dakota .. All the paint peeled off the roof... 1997 Chev Malibu ... New head Gasket ... 2000 Chev Malibu clattered more than a Diesel on start up.. bought back by GM ... 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue.. Absolutely no problems - great car - kept it for 7 years... 2004 Chev Silverado... Failed to start during a snow storm taking my Dad to his Radiation treatments! Took a day for the dealer to fix - nothing!... 2007 Honda Odyssey - Computer Module took out TPMS & ABS... $1400.00 thank heavens for extended warranty. All the vehicles were brand new when purchased...

My Point... All brands have issues. I am not trying to diffuse the posters aingst... but share it amongst a broader inventory of models & brands.

Good points, CaptainMorgan.

As with all "Man-made" products, there is a crap shoot. Until God takes over production, nothing will be perfect. But...................the good news is that the good far outweighs the bad.

Most people on the Eos site are satisfied as opposed to being dissatified, me included.

My Eos is not perfect, but if I were to try manufacturing an automobile in my garage, I would be far less satisfied than I am now, plus it would have cost a heck of a lot more in the end.

I assume the OP has a warranty and eventually, if his car is not able to be repaired, it will be replaced.

Thanks for your replies, guys. The plain fact is, however, that the sad litany of failures should never have arisen! The old adage from I.T. 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' (KISS) has been completely ignored by manufacturers and legislators. We need to return to simple basics. Morris Minor anyone (+dodgy kingpins)?

I feel that the complicated systems now governing vehicles are unreliable and counter-productive. I wish to replace this car asap with one that works properly. Any ideas?

Quite agree with you Coolrider, why should we have to put up with the same problem more than once?

My Dynaudio head needed replacing twice! That's pretty rubbish really even if it was replaced under warranty!

What indication did you get that the DPF had failed? You should get a CEL come on to tell you to do a fast re-gen, have you had that warning? If so did you do the required action? Is it the DPF light that's come on and not the CEL?
I'm not being arsey, just trying to work out what's going on. You can get symptoms that suggest DPF failure but which are in fact the result of a sensor failure and if the dealer doesn't get the diagnosis right you end up paying for a very expensive repair instead of for a sensor costing less than £50. I would be surprised to hear of two DPF failures within the service life of the EOS unless it spends its life pottering around town.
So, I think there's more to it than just a DPF failure and am willing to share my experience of the events which both myself and another member went through not too long back. If you're selling the car you'll need to fix it anyway so what's to lose?
Hope you get it sorted anyway mate without too much more grief.
Regards,
John

Thanks for your replies, guys. The plain fact is, however, that the sad litany of failures should never have arisen! The old adage from I.T. 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' (KISS) has been completely ignored by manufacturers and legislators. We need to return to simple basics. Morris Minor anyone (+dodgy kingpins)?

I feel that the complicated systems now governing vehicles are unreliable and counter-productive. I wish to replace this car asap with one that works properly. Any ideas?



Easy - buy a car that is pre-1973 with no emission controls and straight forward electrics. The driving experience might not be as good as you wish and parts might be hard to find however there is much less to go wrong and an old duffer like me can fix most problems with basic tools :D:D:D.

I must admit I have not had any reliability problems with any of the modern vehicles that I have owned since electronics become universal.

Can anyone tell me why our EOS needs to drop the windows to open the doors then, or is it just another unnecessary gimmick, or poor design. My 9 year old Subaru [$50 spent on non-scheduled servicing in that time] has frameless doors, and no leaks, and no Krytox needed. Our EOS required a new ignition switch to solve the stupid ”chattering windows” problem. As other VW’s have this same feature, presumably the opening roof isn’t part of the problem is it? Technology for technologies sake perhaps, and not easy fixed at home! How many expensive, sometimes unreliable gadgets could be done away with, without ruining the car? Don’t get me wrong, I am not a manual advance/retard advocate by any stretch, but I am quite happy turning my own headlights on, for one example that just springs to mind. My A1 priority in ANY device, automotive or not, is reliability, as most of the population , including coolrider, would probably agree, and this is why we have steered towards the less exciting [mainly Japanese] cars before I retired.

As an aside, the other day the low oil light illuminated. As I had not had that before with the EOS, although I was aware it is a perennial problem with the old petrol engine I had not checked the level for a while, my fault. I had a hospital appointment so had to drive 50kms before reoiling at my local VW dealer on my way home. Although the VW garage guidance was that with gentle driving 200kms could be achieved before trouble should occur, the head mechanic told me I was very close to triggering all kinds of horror warnings when he filled it up. I do not recall having to put oil into any other car for some 30 years, and at least in my old 1964 Rover 110, I could check the oil level at any time when driving along. Progress!!

Thanks for your replies, guys. The plain fact is, however, that the sad litany of failures should never have arisen! The old adage from I.T. 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' (KISS) has been completely ignored by manufacturers and legislators. We need to return to simple basics. Morris Minor anyone (+dodgy kingpins)?

I feel that the complicated systems now governing vehicles are unreliable and counter-productive. I wish to replace this car asap with one that works properly. Any ideas?

Vw ain't the only manufacturers that have a DPF problem according to BBC Watchdog program the other week most new diesels suffer the same if you only do city driving(and sorry for being pedantic but Morris Minors had Swivel Pins lol). Mick

Scousus maximus hit the nail on the head. A DPF light coming on doesn't mean there is a DPF problem. The DPF is a physical device - a pipe containing a catylist mesh. For it to 'Go Wrong' it would have to be clogged big time, like a major turbo oil seal leak or blocked engine breather and masses of oil and soot going through the exhaust. You couldn't avoid noticing a cloud of black smoke in the mirror. The back pressure readings at the exhaust pressure sensor would be off the scale. I suspect you would soon get that feeling if you tried sticking your finger on the end of the sensor pipe to feel the back pressure.

My bet is on the management electronics that is saying it's faulty when it may not be. But cunning and skilful diagnostics interpretation may be needed from VW techs looking for the fault.

If you buy an older diesel say pre- 2005, unless it's German it probably won't have a DPF. Petrol vehicles don't have a DPF, but do have a CAT, oxygen sensors and other junk.

My 15 year old petrol Renault Laguna estate has ECU and some emission control, but nothing like the new cars. I didn't part it in under the UK 'scrappage scheme' as it's done 85K trouble free miles. It gets used for ferrying the dog about, carrying timber and building materials - and of course it gets used if an EOS fault light comes on (only happened once).

Perhaps every EOS should be sold with a second small SMART car, just for those engine and roof fault occasions!

We have been driving our 2007 EOS keeping the revs above 2K around town for 9 months now. That's just when the turbo is kicking in and is something we have got used to. Wifey now uses mostly 3rd and 4th gears around town and on shopping trips. The engine breaths nicely and I hope our DPF will now do the 100K miles trouble free it's claimed to do.

Can anyone tell me why our EOS needs to drop the windows to open the doors then, or is it just another unnecessary gimmick

Absolutely essential on most convertible tops!

The door windows sit in the U shaped channel of the soft rubber roof seal. That makes the glass a good seal.

If the windows were not droped 1/2" or so, every time you opened the door, the glass would be yanked across the rubber seal and destroy the seal very quickly.

My gripe has been that the window glass does not stay dropped for long enough and we have had to learn to gently squeeze the door latch to open without yanking on the door. That takes the glass down for another time period. However, you cannot guarantee your passengers will take the same care getting in and out the car. You get a similar problem if you turn off the ignition and sit too long in the car. We just get used to putting slight pressure on the door to open it, then wait a second for the windows to drop.

In the ideal world, I would like my windows to drop when I remove the key and stay dropped until I hit the remote lock to take care of exit. And on entry for the windows to drop and stay dropped when I hit the remote unlock and for them to come up when the doors all lock moving at around 8 mph.

Winter is coming so make sure those window glass seals are well Krytoxed. That way you keep out water which can cause the glass to freeze to the rubber seal. Then the glass doesn't drop and the door itself may also freeze to the seal. In fact, when I had the glass freezing last winter, I avoided opening any door until I had de-iced the seal first and got the windows to drop with slight pressure on the door opener. Same thing as not hitting the wiper switch until you have de-iced and tested the blades are free to move. The EOS wiper spline spigots are the most puny I have ever come across and the wipers are huge. The arm splines can strip very easily if the blade is stuck to the screen. You have to buy the whole arm too!

Winter is coming so make sure those window glass seals are well Krytoxed.
I thought that you shouldn't Krytox the seals that touch window glass.

I see no other solution for seals that can absorb water which then freezes to the window glass and I didn't think messy smeary silicone grease was appropriate. De icing can work if you have the time to hang around. But the fundamental problem still remains that water can get absorbed into the seal.

Krytox is inert and an excellent water repellant. If you were writing a service procedure knowing the price of Krytox, wouldn't you use it sparingly? That's different to the real world of ownership where you risk burning out window motors when glass is frozen to the seals and if you open the door you risk pulling the rubber apart and another expensive repair.

It would be interesting to hear from any EOS owners in Canada who park their cars out on the driveway.

VW have given three different versions of the seal maintenance since the car's launch.
1) use silicone based lube
2) don't use silicone based lube, use krytox all round
3) use krytox but not on window seals
I've done #2 for 4 years with no concerns other than smears on the side glass but if I can get away with #3 I'll give it a go but after winter so my seals don't freeze/stick!
Regards,
John

Mixing silicone and Krytox is definitely a no-no.

When I first got the car, I was very careful to clean all the seals with alcohol wipes, because I couldn't be certain about what was on there. What I like about liquid Krytox is very little is needed (good because it's so expensive!), it penetrates well and stays a long time. You've only got to spray some water a few weeks after Krytoxing to see how well it stops water penetration.

I can see that getting excessive amounts on a window glass could make the glass hard to de-smear. However I apply my liquid Krytox with a Hypo syringe right where I want it and smooth it in afterwards with a latex gloved finger. If I was getting the stuff running down my window, I'd worry about why I was wasting so much.

OK voxmagna, then the way VW configure their seals may require this window dropping procedure, but possibly a different, perhaps better design could do away with this widely reported, often troublesome, complication, not only on the EOS, but on other fixed roof VWs, or how else would my dealer have got to the root of the problem so quickly? The chattering window is well known!

My point is that many car manufacturers love heaping gimmicks onto their products just because they can. They are not always reliable, usually add cost/weight, and are not always brilliantly thought out. An oil level check caption for example, displayed a minimal amount, say 50 kms before dire trouble appears, is not enough notice in many circumstances. Why not a warning level set to indicate a need of a top up at the next fuel stop, say, or 500kms, especially with the old 113 engine, still being used today in some VW/AUDIs, which often drinks like Johnny Vegas!! Of course an engine that didn’t consider a 1L/ 1000kms thirst as within limits might even be better.

My holy grail is a sealed-for-life car that only requires fuelling with something occasionally, and if it’s also a bit of fun then that’s a bonus.

When it arrives, and it may be some time yet, I doubt if it will be a VW product.

My holy grail is a sealed-for-life car that only requires fuelling with something occasionally, and if it’s also a bit of fun then that’s a bonus.

Let me know when you find one.:) But I think it will be some kind of electric vehicle. Even a fairground dodgem car can out accelerate most cars for a couple of seconds!

I tend to regard gimmicks as the province of Japanese and Korean manufacturers. That comes from their technology centered culture. Because they are often very remote from knowing what their customers actually want, they tend to offer four or five ways of doing things to get the same result, leaving you confused but able to choose. You find this a lot in TV's and other 'gadgets'.

Germans have another culture which gets into their product designs. My impression is rather than listen to what customers actually want then find they have to offer different options for each market, they design from a German philosophy and persuade you that their way is best.

It's a lot cheaper to put out marketing messages than produce new designs. I also think that German cars still have a quaility expectation, but have to make them cheaper whilst still looking expensive. Take the seats in my Sport EOS. The so called leather doesn't feel like the leather I would know and expect in a high end Jag and the seats themselves are just a foam molded shell. Every time I get in the car I curse those raised side moldings that I have to climb over. Still I suppose they may have been based on Ricarros.

Thinking about your oil level. My old Renault has an oil level display of droplets that shows at first key on. It shows as 5 with a full sump and less drops as oil level goes down. Commercial logic says that the engine should run through 6-10K service intervals without needing oil. If the car is a diesel and using excessive oil, then the DPF isn't going to last that long. So I think that's a warning that should rarely come on.

If my EOS Sport was full of Gimmicks, it would have come with a decent large screen radio, integrated satnav, phone BT and mp3 player - I had to get that from China at a price I could afford. It would also have electric fold back mirrors and heated mirrors as standard. They could also have fitted a rear bumper plastic as standard that allowed me to cheaply add a tow ball for my cycle trailer.

Still they did provide that little door in the rear seat back for me to poke my skiis through. But I can't ski!

We have enough electronics already in our cars to give us the dire warnings and it's often these things that go wrong and are expensive to repair. Remember a gasoline engine should only need fuel, air, compression and a spark to run - aka Morris Minor, MGB GT. But then along comes new strict requirements for engine management driven by fuel efficiency arguments and look what you have.

Er vox, our thoughts are not too far apart in some ways.

Fortunately I was able to dodge the expensive leather seats which look good, but, for me, in our climate, offer built in bum friers without being switched on!! I also ignored the poorly rated hugely expensive satnav offered, preferring to update my Garmin for free for life via my computer, rather than paying more than the Garmin’s total cost to the local stealer for a [probably already] out-of-date disc all the time. I have only heard of one, Panasonic I think, integrated, not freestanding, satnav where the maps are held on an SD card, so that updating is easy. Others may well be out there. The thing was expensive enough, try near £40k OTR, and that was petrol/DSG/metallic paint as the only extras!!! OK the spec is quite full anyway, but certain desirable extras for OZ were unobtainable at any price, and ticking all the boxes would have frightened Fort Knox ,easily adding1/3 again.

Your old Renault has an eminently sensible oil check system which surely is better than the thing we have. Virtually every other parameter is indicated on startup in the EOS, let’s add the oil level as I am not a fan of rummaging under the bonnet with a rag every fuel stop, and I would notice that, especially if it remained on for say 5 seconds after turning the key, I then would have no excuse!! My EOS didn’t make 2/3rds of the 15000kms service interval.

It would be interesting to see what could be deleted from the EOS without spoiling it’s appeal, and how much cost could be saved. [I am a dab hand at turning on my own wipers & lights.]

This is a car I really wanted to warm to, and my wife, for whom it was a significant birthday present, is happy enough, so really that’s all that matters. We just hope it won’t let us down like poor cool rider’s wife, as the recriminations will be enormous.

YEAH. RIGHT. DPF light AGAIN and failure to regenerate. In the garage again, courtesy car. VW have the affront to say driver fault. After all the long miles? After our experience? Sick of it.


The car HAS to go.


End of

YEAH. RIGHT. DPF light AGAIN and failure to regenerate. In the garage again, courtesy car. VW have the affront to say driver fault. After all the long miles? After our experience? Sick of it.


The car HAS to go.


End of

Goodbye.

Now, for the rest of us, let's get on with the positive aspects or our vehicle.:)

I am always happy to see a negavitive factor leave this site.:)

With a DPF, you have to do regular, long motorway trips... ALSO the fuel you use DOES make a difference... Esso, YES, Supermarket, NO!! Rubbish fuel will clog up the DPF and EGR very quickly, good fuel won't! False economy!

Yes, I appreciate from my post above that my beloved EOS is Petrol!!! However, my Touran is a 2.0 TDI DPF! :)

Also, my commend about fuel quality goes for both!! You are what you eat... My cars eat ESSO and are quick and clean :)

Thank you David Paul for your comments.

Your sentiments are noted. Perhaps you might want to buy 'Christine' from us, as she has now been named?

Not 'negative' if the car works, by the way.

Thank you David Paul for your comments.

Your sentiments are noted. Perhaps you might want to buy 'Christine' from us, as she has now been named?

Not 'negative' if the car works, by the way.

Yes, as an Eos website, many of us may be interested in "Christine".

Please start the bidding, including shipping, at the lowest price, of course.

Ready, set, go............................................

I have deliberately refrained from getting involved with this topic as I believe there is more to this "problem" than has been revealed so far.

I find it very hard to believe that the claimed DPF problem could occur so frequently unless something unusual was occurring with the way the car was being used or maintained. DPF filters have been around long enough in both car and truck applications for most of the potential problems to have been identified and solutions found. Apart from a one-off engine management system gremlin, the most likely causes of DPF clogging are turbocharger oil leaks, the use of non-complying engine oil or bio-diesel/recycled cooking oil as fuel. All of these will increase the amount of carbon particulates in the exhaust gas leading to clogging of the DPF. The problem will also be exacerbated if the vehicle is mostly used for short trips. The use of non-compliant engine oil/fuel will also result in carryover of organic and metallic contaminants to the DPF which could prevent complete regeneration each forced regeneration cycle leading to a reduction in filter performance.

As I have said in another thread involving owner complaints, there are some people who should never own any form of mechanical device due to their unrealistic expectations or unwillingness to undertake recommended preventative maintenance [usually to save money]; either attitude inevitably results in dissatisfaction.

So the bl**dy car came back on a low loader again, courtesy of the RAC. RAC good, but not nice for my wife sitting in a layby in mid Wales in the dark afraid to put the interior light on in case it attracted attention, waiting for two hours, at minus 5 degrees, after miles of warning light, miles of 2,000 - 3,000 rpm, and then a comedy light to say that she had to stop, and limp mode.

This car has more comedic talent than Ronald McDonald, in a sick way. Very sick.

Never buy a 2007 Diesel. It is a pile of utter poo.

I shall now terminate my membership, as I have clearly upset those who are lucky enough to have cars that work. Mine does not. It has never worked properly. The arrogance of one or two has simply caused offence. Enjoy. I'm out of the Eos club, and out of the Eos experience. It has been shit.

Bye

Sorry to hear your bad luck. As others had said there's probably more going on and it really is down to a high level of competence from the service techs to solve the problem. I don't just mean they have been on this and that VW course. They service techs you want are those that have had actual fault finding experience and can think outside the box.

Unfortunately, I'm the opposite. I have an electronics engineering background and have worked on complex electronics at system and component level. I do think outside the box, but it's hard work in these cars because they don't share much information. As a result I have to do everything from theory, first principles and reverse engineering. That means I can make wrong judgements, but I'm not constrained by procedures.

I also have a story to tell very similar to yours. I was sitting in the drive, hit the window down button and the cable chewed up after the glass got to the bottom.

Imagine your wife driving down the M4 at night in freezing Winter with the window fully open. My 15 year old Renault Laguna has never had any of these problems. But then the windows use the tried and proven steel scissor design, not some el cheapo bunch of twisting wires.

Now I have to wonder, if the system has an overload cutout (which does work), why the cable linkage should ever fail, because its spec. loads should exceed those of the cutout setting. I will post more in a new thread when all is revealed.

I don't want to rake up and old thread, but just want to point out that the DPF issue is not EOS specific. The same 2.0TDI is in the Touran, Passat, Golf, not to mention Audi A4, Audi A3, Seat Toledo, Leon and some Skodas too!

I do have to say that my Touran went in the other week as the coolant light came on and bellows of steam came out the exhaust!!!

It turned out that the EGR split and let coolant into the exhaust recirculation!!!

Bloody Diesel! ;)

I'd agree with that, which is which is why many manufacturers of diesel cars are now alerting prospective buyers to the problems of short distance, shopping mom type driving habits.

That sounds like a cop out to me, but I understand they are trapped into meeting the regulations and making a car that is 'fit for purpose'. Personally I would avoid diesels for my next purchase and look harder at the leaner burn petrol engines. The other issue with diesels is emission regulations have forced manufacturers to develop more complex turbo charged and higher rpm engines. Many things in modern diesel engine design now negate the advantages of buying a diesel model.

I bought my Tdi EOS as diesel because I knew it was a relatively heavy car with heavy glass and extra chassis strengthening and that's where diesels often win on fuel economy. But they also give consistent better fuel economy for urban mileage 'around town' - an advantage which is now killed off by the dpf problem!

At the moment, as long as the engne holds up, I'm more concerned about avoiding leaks and having a working roof!

Agree... Roof is my biggest worry too as the car ages. Although I know it pretty well and can fix most roof related things, it's the hydraulic side of things that worries me! At least the sensors should stop it physically mangling itself up if the pump should go!!

A breif history of my vehicles.. as diverse as it is.. I hope my point is clear at the end of this....
1980 Dodge Aspen... had a white Ceramic ballast that would fail & cut out all ability for the car to start.. you had to keep a spare in the glovebox ... 1984 Dodge Omni - leaked around both A-pillars.. (not a convertible)... 1986 LeBaron GTS - Electronic Dash went dark... no gauges or speedo! ... 1988 Dodge Lancer Shelby blew a turbo hose during a full acceleration romp.... Scared the crap outta me.... 1992 Dodge Dakota .. All the paint peeled off the roof... 1997 Chev Malibu ... New head Gasket ... 2000 Chev Malibu clattered more than a Diesel on start up.. bought back by GM ... 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue.. Absolutely no problems - great car - kept it for 7 years... 2004 Chev Silverado... Failed to start during a snow storm taking my Dad to his Radiation treatments! Took a day for the dealer to fix - nothing!... 2007 Honda Odyssey - Computer Module took out TPMS & ABS... $1400.00 thank heavens for extended warranty. All the vehicles were brand new when purchased...

My Point... All brands have issues. I am not trying to diffuse the posters aingst... but share it amongst a broader inventory of models & brands.

Dude. You have had some seriously bad car karma. Before your next purchase, be sure to smudge yourself with sage or something, maybe bathe in holy water, I don't know, but with with your streak, you're overdue for a stellar keeper!

Most can probably mention problems with past vehicles. But whilst designs, reliability and safety have come a long way, most modern cars have become so complex with electronics and meeting emission regulations, that faults in those systems carry a much bigger financial cost when things go wrong. When you try to use old methods and thinking to diagnose faults on modern electronic cars, you come unstuck and risk causing more expensive damage.

Added to this, EOS owners have the additional complexity of the CSC roof which can only be serviced by specifically trained VW staff and not some Jo who just 'knows about cars'.

It's most definitely a case of 'Caveat Emptor' if you are considering throwing a lot of bucks at something as complex as a modern car with a convertible roof - whatever the brand. But if you want something special and unique, you have to be prepared to accept the downsides as well.

I have friends who own 'classic cars'. Simple to repair you say? But they are still having the roadside breakdowns we were all used to in those days and now get less often, clutches failing, cyl. heads warping, carburetter problems etc.

They spend their spare time keeping them reliable just as I remember. Most of the time I just drive my EOS and wash it.