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Discussion Starter #1
Today I thought I would explore my EOS Roof controller 1Q0 959 255B. MY07 roof system has no faults, but I'm working on something to give enhanced monitoring and interactive control for roof fault finding.

After about an hour I removed the left side trunk liner, the luggage cover and rear lock panel without breaking anything. I have never had any water leaks in the trunk and all the components were looking clean with no obvious signs of water contamination.

When I looked at the roof pump which others say gets full of water, I couldn't understand why until I came to fit the top foam spongy cover which is molded around the edges to be a seal. VW have a large bunch of wires coming out the left side of the clam shell cover causing the rear edge to kick up and open. I suspect water hitting the top cover can run inside and then fill up the void space. They also have a couple of mystery holes in the top which I sealed with silicone. Don't think they would add anything to cooling. For those curious, the pump motor thermistor measures 950 ohm at about 16 deg.C (resistance should decrease with increasing temperature). I'll calibrate it next time and see what it is doing in Summer and with the roof operated. 'X' number of times.

So I moved on to the roof controller fitted on the trunk left side. I needed to remove the plugs to do some testing. When I got to 'C' plug ('A' is rear nearest the lock) I had a fright.:eek: Some liquid had got inside and there were the greeny blue tell tale signs on the plug and socket. I was able to clean both connectors with Isopropyl alcohol followed by some switch cleaner spray. Then repeated for the other 3 connectors.

Connector 'C' handles about 13 senders from the roof so it definitely isn't a connector you want intermittent. Intermittent roof faults and wiring problems are the worst faults to have. Vagcom is just going to throw up loads of random errors (scratch head?) when all we want to see is one fault.

Therefore if your EOS is getting older and you have time on your hands on a nice day, checking and cleaning all those connectors might just save you an embarrassing stuck roof or other Gremlins that mysteriously come and go. Even unplugging and plugging them back will clean their contacts which are NOT gold plated!

I cannot understand German logic here. All the under hood controllers and door controller connectors use 'Timer' style automotive plugs and sockets which incorporate a circular silicone sealing gasket and silicone plug seals on the wire exits from the connector shells.

MY07 Roof Controller does not use these superior Timer connectors and any water running on to the wiring can get trapped inside the housing.:mad:
 

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Vox,

The classic consequence of single-source supply of assembly parts from low-cost countries who "cut corners" to sell on price and not quality and certain financial types do not have the intelligence let alone experience to understand you get what you pay for when involved in purchasing decisions.

Thank you for a VERY important advice item which I expect will apply to all models of the Eos as I doubt upgrading of the wiring connections would not have had much attention once the initial selection was implemented in production.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Diagnostic tools like vcds can make you lazy, throw up seemingly random fault codes and forget first principles. The one I've seen a few times on MY07 is 'intermittent communication'. Now you see it, now you don't!

I've now worked out relying on the EOS diagnostics interface to tell me what's wrong with the roof operation isn't always reliable, particularly if the control systems are preventing operation, when something fails or doesn't happen in the allotted time frame. That is leading me on to a test and fault finding procedure where I can take the roof controller out of the system completely and manually go through each phase of roof operation. Those tests will tell me if the roof pump hydraulics are o.k or not and I then go on to find out what the roof controller is and isn't doing. Far better than just getting 'Roof Controller module fault - replace' message from vcds.

Unfortunately, 'write' control at this level could only be used in expert hands, so I will not be posting details for others to screw up their roofs! Some 'read only' measurement conclusions will come out which I may share.

Some of the roof hydraulics components are manufactured by CooperStandard and the roof controller is marked OASYS with hardware and software codes. As a bought in system for the EOS roof maybe they didn't think their design would get near water, whereas when VW put their standard format controllers inside the door skins, they did use weatherproof connectors. Sad when you think some roof faults are just as bad as an engine breakdown problem.
 

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wow this saved me a lot of hassle today.
our roof was getting stuck down.
i checked the connectors and yes they were all corroded.
i have also removed the sponge from around the pump as its been gathering water.

excellent.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There will be many with older cars paying a fortune for dealers to find these kind of 'random' faults, even charging up for new roof controller units. Glad you succeeded. :)
 

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Hey Vox,
New guy here!! Any chance you have pulled a trunk micro switch off? I have carefully tried the tiny screwdriver approach to no avail... any suggestions. Tim
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You need to be more specific about which switch?

If you mean the luggage compartment cover contact switch, you have to loosen the left side trim, disconnect the connector, remove the trim and release 2 locking hooks to remove the switch. If you need to remove the switch carrier, remove 3 securing nuts.

Just separating connectors is a fiddle. On most of this type, you gently lift up the 'U' bar and pull the connector at the same time. Adding some silicone grease to the oval seal makes removal easier next time.
 

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Hey Vox,
New guy here!! Any chance you have pulled a trunk micro switch off? I have carefully tried the tiny screwdriver approach to no avail... any suggestions. Tim

Tim-
When I fitted my rear camera I had the devil's own job to re-attach this switch correctly, check out my install guide with all the pictures of how and where it all fits. See the end of part 1 and all part 2.

https://www.vweosclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31921


Cheers Tony.
 

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MY07 Roof Controller does not use these superior Timer connectors and any water running on to the wiring can get trapped inside the housing.:mad:
Is it a good idea to give the connectors a little amount of dielectric grease, especially on the open wire, back end of the connector, to try and prevent the ingress of water?

I understand dielectric grease is electrically insulating, but I’m thinking you would have a permanent physical connection with the terminal male pin held by the female, the grease would then surround the void around this connection and prevent moisture getting in.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I only used it around the shell seal. The sensors are 5 volt logic levels and you don't want to have any contact resistance. The switch cleaner I sprayed on is both a contact cleaner and leaves a protective lubricating film. If dielectric grease is ok for computer type control connectors then it should be o.k here. You won't find it in a PC, just gold or similar plating - rarely cheap tin/lead. Even the last faston connectors I bought were electro plated. When I've seen grease used in automotive switches it leads to them going unreliable because it attracts dirt. :(

One problem may be water getting on the wiring and running back into the plugs because I noticed the loom wires rise up towards the front. The correct design should have allowed extra wire to form a low point loop for drips. If you can't get this you could try putting a thick band of silicone sealant around the wire bundle before it enters the shell. Then I think I would look at getting something like a clear melamine overhead sheet over the top to form a roof. This seems a fairly well protected place (unlike the pump) and isn't somewhere I would expect to find water. :confused:

I don't exactly know where it comes from. Some may get worse corrosion because of their roof /trunk seals? Water flooding the channel under the rear screen and entering the trunk is well known. But the roof controller sits high up and should be dry? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I can't edit my first post #1 so I will add some more information here: I recommended cleaning the roof connectors with a switch cleaner and this is not a bad thing to do. However, I appreciate some have had more green stuff than me on their roof ECU connectors and even damaged pins on the ECU itself. Therefore I would advise doing the following before using the quick fix switch cleaner.

Connectors 'C' & 'D' far right (and others) contain very fine socket receptacle pins. You don't need to worry so much about the larger more robust current carrying pins. You should carefully check and count the pins in the ECU. If any are missing with gaps, they could be broken off inside the wiring loom connector. If you replace the roof ECU, plugging in the loom connector with a stuck pin could break the pin on your new ECU!

The second problem can be loss of 'grip' between the sockets in the loom connector and the mating pins on the ECU. These connector pins don't seem to be of the same quality as TE Timer Junior connectors and are tin not gold plated. Connectors 'C' & 'D' play a crucial role in the roof sensor connections and any unrelibaility can lead to a stuck open roof or trunk locking faults.

The loom socket female receptacles can each be carefully tested for grip with a 0.7mm diameter sewing pin (NO THICKER!). You should feel the same positive grip on each. If the grip on some pins is light, they need to be fixed or replaced. A good test for reliable electrical contact is to insert all the plugs in the ECU, run the engine and a continuous realtime diagnostics gateway scan after clearing fault codes. With the trunk lid open, gently wiggle each mated connector. If there's a bad contact you will hear a warning ding and the live scan will log a sensor fault code (corresponding to the bad connector pin). I've discovered a good cleaning tool for these female pins is a fine 0.35mm or 0.45mm interdental cleaning brush.

Getting the female pins out is a challenge because these particular connectors are not retained like most others V.W connectors. You could spend a day with a set of connector de-pinning tools and still fail! I couldn't find a source for the pins although I think they are available from the Stealer as 'repair wires'. This is a short wire (usually yellow) with the pin attached which you solder splice and sleeve to the loom wire. However, having eventually extracted a female pin, I was able to tighten up its grip on the ECU pin. These don't seem like high quality connector pins and I would have like to source compatible gold plated alternatives and replace the lot for this critical application. If I ever had to deal with a roof controller with many bad pins which could probably still work, I might consider solder hard wiring from their ECU board direct to the loom wires?

Many V.W connector shells are designed with 1 or 2 small holes or slots either side of the pin hole. A forked tool is inserted to squeeze locking tabs on the pin which pulls out from the rear. I've tried this with a set of pin remover tools I have on other connectors and it's hit and miss if they work. A paper clip hammered to form 2 flats can be stronger and work better.

The following photo shows roof connector 'C'. You can see that the plug on the loom is actually in 2 parts. There's a small insignificant tab which once lifted, allows the inner part with fine pins to be slid out. Now the pesky gripper tabs on each pin are exposed and can be gently pushed in to remove the pin from the rear. If you are replacing the same pin, you need to open the tabs before pushing the pin back.

22303


What you do with a loose or damaged loom connector pin(s) needs care and patience with limited choices. You can buy the repair wires, buy a used connector to extract good pins, or try and repair a loose pin. If you canibalise a used connector with wires attached, you can solder splice and sleeve the short wires to your loom. However, the same connectors are used on other VAGS and may not have all the pins present or the same wire colors (not a problem).

The next photo shows a female receptacle pin end view. They have a rectangular opening formed of four tabs which grip male pins in the controller. I couldn't see any sophistocated tensioning inside and the four tabs seemed to be the only part making the contact. Using a pair of fine side cutters and pliers I was able to gently close up the tabs until I got a nice grip on a 0.7mm sewing pin. The intermittent connector pin was replaced in the shell and passed the 'wiggle test' with no sensor errors.

22302


Coming up in another post I will explain how the roof controller can be damaged by water.
Connector 'C' on the controller is V.W part 1K0 972 961 (Plenty of these about used, but not sure if all the openings are pinned for the EOS).
Connector 'D' on the controller with a red lock tab is part 1k0 972 928 and a bit rare.
 
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