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My locking piston rods are quite hard to move, but if you can push yours fully forwards with both chrome shafts fully extended (all roof locks off) then the hydraulics must be working into a short circuit? Now you can open your trunk lid a little, you might be able to peek in or video to see if they move just after the sunroof moves right back. If you get the pump grinding noise and no ram movement there's a hydraulic short. If both locking rams move forwards then you get the grinding noise, something is wrong with the solenoid, shuttle valves or hoses not sending fluid to the rear window lift or trunk lid swing out rams which is the next stage.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I'm still here :) A few other checks, I managed to get both the locking pistons fully extended by hand, not a lot of force to do that but quite a lot to get them back, I expect with a quite a few psi behind them probably not to much effort at all. I'm starting to come round to thinking the replacement pump has the same fault as the original, I did put some masking tape on the locking pistons across the piston to the body and tried the roof opening, the tape didn't move at all so the locking/unlock pistons aren't moving. One question, is it ok to open the roof with the chrome locking hoops still removed ?
 

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It depends on how much 'open' you want. The push force needed on the locking rams is a lot more than you think. But the same is true about the trunk swing out and main roof rams which need HUGE forces. The shop manual says use 2 people to manually open a roof. I thought this was just to get the parts pulled evenly, but since I tried modified spring compressors acting directly on a pair of bigger rams, I realize their procedure is really calling for brute force from 2 people. I'd try to avoid doing it in case parts got distorted.

If you think this pump is faulty, I can't understand why you don't pull the line feeding the locking rams, let the pump run momentarily after the sunroof pulls back, then check there's fluid coming out from the pump. That would avoid getting into the bowels of the roof hinge and locks, unless you're just curious and like punishment? If no fluid, it must be coming out from one of the other pairs of lines which it shouldn't do. If there is fluid and the pump doesn't make the same grinding noise, you might suspect an obstruction is in the locking rams or their hoses? I've not torn a double acting cylinder apart but have an idea how it works. The cylinders are in pairs and a fault in one could affect the other? Pressurized fluid pushes the piston rod and fluid returns to the pump. You know about hydraulics and might understand how the rod is kept fully extended in either direction whilst removing load from the pump? It's either done in the pump or part of the cylinder design. My car trolley jack works the same way. I can keep pumping the handle and the jack cup stays at the top taking its load.

Before you start moving anything, remember I said if you turn on the ignition with parts in a different position, your roof controller may get out of sync? Make sure you move all parts back to the point when you last turned off the ignition. My start point at ignition off was the sunroof fully open right back with all my roof locks off, lid hoops removed and their 'C' claws rolled over but not engaged. I returned everything to the same position before turning on the ignition when the roof would either complete the open or close. If you disconnect the battery, all bets may be off! When the roof locks are off (rams fully extended) you can move the rear window (lightest part) up and over to sit on top of the roof. Initially its light weight is difficult to move if working alone due to some hydraulic resistance, Lift each side carefully and vertically in stages of about 2-4" and put wooden blocks under. When you get the rear window raised about 6-8 inches equally both sides, it can be easily pushed forwards over the roof to reveal more of the hinge and locks.

You don't need to worry about the lid corner hoops being open as long as you don't operate the hydraulics to swing out the lid. In theory you could pull back the lid as for normal swing out and it will just be a bit floppy at the rear without the supporting claws, but the grunt force is huge. The lid is always attached to the hinge and parcel shelf so isn't going to just fall off but watch its front edge in relation to the rear window. You don't really need it swung out to access the hinge and locks unless you start moving other parts. Since the trunk lid is attached to the (heavy) parcel shelf you may need to lift the whole lot back a couple of inches to clear the rear window edge if you try to bring it down. You can do this with a hydraulic bottle jack in the center of the parcel shelf beam and a short length of 2x4 as a load spreader on the jack cup. Once you can see all the other locks you can grease their rollers.

WARNING: You have entered the risky territory of closing the trunk lid and having the center lock and pull down operate. Do what I said and drill a 3-4mm hole in the upper lock cover. Roll the locking claw back to open it and push in a pin to stop it closing. Remember to close the pump relief valve when finished. You can expect more holes to open up most of which are solvable e.g. Front windows out of sync, sunroof out of sync, lid pull down in wrong postition and dashboard dings and warnings about roof operation.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Hi Guys, its been a while since I last posted about my fun with the roof. Thought you might like an update. After losing the will go much further I booked the car into Cayman Auto Services, they are only 40 mins away from us. They had been shut for a few weeks during lockdown but had just reopened, we now have the car back fully working, the diagnosis was air in the system. They had to physically move the sections of the roof to get the system to draw oil into the pipework etc then operate the roof with their diagnostic system to bleed it through. It does seem to work quicker than before. I think the diagnosis did stump them for a bit, they had it a couple of days before they told us what was wrong, and the cost. £500, which includes a fixed £80 diagnostic fee.

And a close friend of ours also has an EOS, she was down the coast a few days ago, went to put the roof down the windows came down the sunroof opened the rear window started to lift away and it all stopped. She was unable to get the rear window back or the windows up. She drove home very slowly. Fortunately she has a full car cover as it is parked outside. So we delivered that to Cayman Auto Services today..

Hope you are all safe and well, thanks for your help..
 

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Hi guys,the roof on my 2009 Eos does not want to open. Diagnostic test shows that my rear window frame left lock sensor ( G560) is in an incorrect position. How do i get to that sensor with the roof closed?
 

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Why assume the sensor when it could be the wiring or the lock is actually open? These sensors are fairly reliable and IMHO usually tell the truth or there's damaged wiring?

You have to open the trunk and the manual relief valve, remove most of the side trims, unlock the roof and then 2 people should with some grunt be able to carefully move the parts. But this is a workshop procedure and you need to know what you are doing?

Look at my long post which describes doing basic roof electronics tests using a multimeter. That should tell you if the wiring to the sensor is good or bad.
 

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Indeed, the roof electronics are clever enough to distinguish between "implausible signal" (sensor is not working correctly, problem is in the sensor or the electrical connection to it) and "incorrect position" (chances are the lock is not working correctly, but check the electrics to be sure).
 

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There are two ways. One is the manual method, which requires two mechanics, the workshop manual and training. The other is through diagnostics, which requires a VAS5054 or similar.

Those options won't help you if the lock is not opening, though. You would need to get eyes on the lock itself, which likely means removing the headlining - and that's not an easy task.

I know you want to solve the problem with your roof as quickly as possible, but especially when it comes to roof issues, you need to slow down, be methodical, and make sure you don't do anything that will make it worse. If a lock is stuck, trying to move the roof manually could damage the roof further - even irreparably. Take the time to find out what's going on with that lock - whether it's the sensor or the lock itself - and until you get it fixed, just enjoy driving with the windows down and sunroof open. ;)
 

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If he does what I said and starts by removing the trunk side and hinge trim covers in preparation for a roof parts manual operation, he will be able to see what position the locking rams are in and also test the sensor via the roof controller plug at the same time. With the hinge covers removed it's just possible to see the rear window frame locking claws, But as you said, he might be after a quick simple fix on a smartphone and doesn't realise the knowledge and skills needed?

In doing this he will also find out what condition the roof controller and its connectors are in which might with luck be where his problems started. Somewhere along this journey and not taking care, he could get the trunk lid locked out, but there's plenty here to read about that by searching.
 
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