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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I recently purchased a 2015 Final Edition to replace my 2013 Executive...
I know the 13 has the premium audio (with 600W amp & 10 speakers) and I believe the 15 only has 8 speakers. Does it even have an amp??


I bought an aftermarket stereo shortly before the 13 died. I had the stereo put in the 15. The volume and sound quality are nowhere near the same.
Do I need to add an amp? upgrade speakers? both?
If both or either does it make sense to get new equipment or pull it from the 13 and put it in the 15?

Sorry, I know nothing about audio! I can rebuild an engine and most things mechanical but that is where my knowledge ends!!

Thanks in advance :)
 

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The Dynaudio setup is way better than the Philips paper-cone speakers you get as standard

If you’re prepared to do some re-wiring, you can retrofit the Dynaudio setup from the ‘13 Eos to the ‘15 Eos. Here’s how I retrofitted Dynaudio - you should not expect to be able to fish out the wiring, you’ll have to make the new wiring yourself. It’s not a small job (it’ll take a day or so, probably two since you’d be removing it from another car as well) but it is worth it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The Dynaudio setup is way better than the Philips paper-cone speakers you get as standard

If you’re prepared to do some re-wiring, you can retrofit the Dynaudio setup from the ‘13 Eos to the ‘15 Eos. Here’s how I retrofitted Dynaudio - you should not expect to be able to fish out the wiring, you’ll have to make the new wiring yourself. It’s not a small job (it’ll take a day or so, probably two since you’d be removing it from another car as well) but it is worth it!
I appreciate the info but that is way more than I would want to do myself.
I do have a service contract with BestBuy, they just did the stereo, dashcam, and smart top... I guess I can take it back to them again. It might be easier just to buy an amp and speakers
 

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It's certainly easier to buy a regular 4-channel amp and speakers, and even add crossovers. I don't blame you for not wanting to shift your Dynaudio setup to the new Eos - you can probably get a result that's almost as good with an aftermarket setup.
 
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It's certainly easier to buy a regular 4-channel amp and speakers, and even add crossovers. I don't blame you for not wanting to shift your Dynaudio setup to the new Eos - you can probably get a result that's almost as good with an aftermarket setup.
The idea that a aftermarket setup is "almost as good" as a factory Dynaudio system is far from accurate. An aftermarket system can be poor, very poor, good, very good and excellent. Much depends upon the quality of components you choose, head unit capabilities, crossover design and power. The factory Dynaudio system is light years better than the factory eight speaker configuration but would fall into the category of "very good" not "excellent" and can be easily judged "lacking" when it goes head to head with a quality high end aftermarket sound system..
 

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I worked for many years in T.V Studio engineering and design. I've never played with Dynaudio but this is what I understand about it:

Most audio systems designed for rooms or studios have a reference flat response. There is an amount of E.Q control, but the aim is to reproduce sound as close to the original recorded or transmitted mix as possible to render what we call Hi-Fi in a Stereo or Dolby multi channel image. In rooms treated for acoustic reverberation this is possible. Consumer audio started to include analogue graphic equalizers which allowed the user to customize sound, not as the Director intended but to a flavour which appealed to listeners ears. These techniques became easier with digital signal processing (DSP) and cheap simpler higher power digital amplifiers. Now listeners in whatever environment and whatever age related hearing defects they have can make sound their own. They may have cheap poor quality audio devices so now manufacturers can play with dsp to make them 'appear' to be good quality. Dynaudio are a respected Danish loudspeaker manufacturer supplying the pro audio industry.

Cars are the worst place to design a sound system for. If you played a decent quality music radio service through a flat system even with decent speakers, you would complain of lack of bass. A car cannot sound like the room or studio in which the original mix was done. Aftermarket systems like mine seem to be designed around flatness with limited E.Q control. You can boost Bass to some degree, but the sound you hear doesn't have that 'wow' factor. The wow factor is where the marketeers and the audio designers come together. The sound no longer has to be as the original mix intended, but something that sounds great to most ears inside a car when concentration should be on driving. Quality bass is hard to achive. I don't mean boost from 80 to 120hz, but bass lower than 50hz and not -3dB either! You need a lot more power from amplifiers and small speakers with lots of linear cone movement to achieve good bass, particularly 'close field' inside a car where the cabin won't enhance the sound and is more likely to ruin it. I've heard a stock 'Bolero' radio in a Skoda and it's sound is better than mine. I'm still using the stock V.W loudspeakers so my aftermarket radio doesn't have the same 'tricked' e.q profile as the OE radio I replaced.

What Dynaudio seem to have done (and patented) is successfully modeled the acoustics of cars they are fitted in and designed a system using multiple (special) speakers in specific locations with each getting a tailored E.Q to suit the car and its specific interior trim level. If you took a Dynaudio car specific system and set it up in a studio or listening room, I doubt if the sound would be of realistic good quality. I'm not even sure if a Dynaudio system taken from one vehicle model and put in another would sound the same if they are using preset profiles? If you wanted the Dynaudio sound you would need to copy every element in their multi speaker system, the tailored E.Q which they use and the car trim plus any additional acoustic treatment. It's not such a difficult task to setup a reference microphone at the drivers ear level, run test tone sweeps through their system and do spectrum recordings. But E.Q isn't just frequency crossover and boost. They could use adaptive compression techniques. At low volumes you hear strong bass which appears to remain strong as you increase the volume. Most car systems give low bass at low volumes and it gets more complicated when adaptive compression is analyzing the type of music being played. So there can be a lot of audio fakery going on in car systems to deliver what is the pleasant 'wow' sound, when there is conflicting background sounds at varying levels.

Dynaudio worked with car manufacturer to design their sound system and probably did a lot of human test research to determine which sound profiles gave the best 'wow' experience? But it's not Hi-Fi audio as we understand it. The problem with the (Chinese?) aftermarkets is they are generic and sold for many vehicles. If they tried to get a great sound in one car, the sound would be different in another. When you buy an aftermarket head unit, you only buy that box and not a licensed system with special performance speakers or extra acoustical treatment which might be in a Dynadio badged vehicle.

If you want to try an interesting test from the drivers seat, tune your phone and in car radio to the same quality radio music channel or use the same 256kb recorded MP3 test source. Put on a pair of studio quality headphones and compare what you hear with the sound coming from your car radio. I bet they won't sound the same. The headphone sound should be more like realistic Hi-Fi as you might hear in a room with full dynamic range, whereas the in-car Dynaudio system may give you the 'wow' which subjectively which you might prefer, but has excessive bass, could add compression reducing dynamic range to make car listening easier, lacks full HF clarity and a true stereo stage image may be compromised for an overall more pleasant sound more suited to driving.

The one thing the aftermarket head unit manufacturers seem to have missed is what Dolby have done. Most modern Dolby multi speaker systems have auto room configuration. You place a reference microphone in the room and their system models the room acoustics to set gains and E.Q. Most cars have fairly cheap speakers and auto eq could pop the HF and bass units! Research the use of rare earth magnets in small loudspeakers because they could offer higher acoustic efficiency and power from larger cone excursions. I haven't seen many around yet!
 

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I worked for many years in T.V Studio engineering and design. I've never played with Dynaudio but this is what I understand about it:

Most audio systems designed for rooms or studios have a reference flat response. There is an amount of E.Q control, but the aim is to reproduce sound as close to the original recorded or transmitted mix as possible to render what we call Hi-Fi in a Stereo or Dolby multi channel image. In rooms treated for acoustic reverberation this is possible. Consumer audio started to include analogue graphic equalizers which allowed the user to customize sound, not as the Director intended but to a flavour which appealed to listeners ears. These techniques became easier with digital signal processing (DSP) and cheap simpler higher power digital amplifiers. Now listeners in whatever environment and whatever age related hearing defects they have can make sound their own. They may have cheap poor quality audio devices so now manufacturers can play with dsp to make them 'appear' to be good quality. Dynaudio are a respected Danish loudspeaker manufacturer supplying the pro audio industry.

Cars are the worst place to design a sound system for. If you played a decent quality music radio service through a flat system even with decent speakers, you would complain of lack of bass. A car cannot sound like the room or studio in which the original mix was done. Aftermarket systems like mine seem to be designed around flatness with limited E.Q control. You can boost Bass to some degree, but the sound you hear doesn't have that 'wow' factor. The wow factor is where the marketeers and the audio designers come together. The sound no longer has to be as the original mix intended, but something that sounds great to most ears inside a car when concentration should be on driving. Quality bass is hard to achive. I don't mean boost from 80 to 120hz, but bass lower than 50hz and not -3dB either! You need a lot more power from amplifiers and small speakers with lots of linear cone movement to achieve good bass, particularly 'close field' inside a car where the cabin won't enhance the sound and is more likely to ruin it. I've heard a stock 'Bolero' radio in a Skoda and it's sound is better than mine. I'm still using the stock V.W loudspeakers so my aftermarket radio doesn't have the same 'tricked' e.q profile as the OE radio I replaced.

What Dynaudio seem to have done (and patented) is successfully modeled the acoustics of cars they are fitted in and designed a system using multiple (special) speakers in specific locations with each getting a tailored E.Q to suit the car and its specific interior trim level. If you took a Dynaudio car specific system and set it up in a studio or listening room, I doubt if the sound would be of realistic good quality. I'm not even sure if a Dynaudio system taken from one vehicle model and put in another would sound the same if they are using preset profiles? If you wanted the Dynaudio sound you would need to copy every element in their multi speaker system, the tailored E.Q which they use and the car trim plus any additional acoustic treatment. It's not such a difficult task to setup a reference microphone at the drivers ear level, run test tone sweeps through their system and do spectrum recordings. But E.Q isn't just frequency crossover and boost. They could use adaptive compression techniques. At low volumes you hear strong bass which appears to remain strong as you increase the volume. Most car systems give low bass at low volumes and it gets more complicated when adaptive compression is analyzing the type of music being played. So there can be a lot of audio fakery going on in car systems to deliver what is the pleasant 'wow' sound, when there is conflicting background sounds at varying levels.

Dynaudio worked with car manufacturer to design their sound system and probably did a lot of human test research to determine which sound profiles gave the best 'wow' experience? But it's not Hi-Fi audio as we understand it. The problem with the (Chinese?) aftermarkets is they are generic and sold for many vehicles. If they tried to get a great sound in one car, the sound would be different in another. When you buy an aftermarket head unit, you only buy that box and not a licensed system with special performance speakers or extra acoustical treatment which might be in a Dynadio badged vehicle.

If you want to try an interesting test from the drivers seat, tune your phone and in car radio to the same quality radio music channel or use the same 256kb recorded MP3 test source. Put on a pair of studio quality headphones and compare what you hear with the sound coming from your car radio. I bet they won't sound the same. The headphone sound should be more like realistic Hi-Fi as you might hear in a room with full dynamic range, whereas the in-car Dynaudio system may give you the 'wow' which subjectively which you might prefer, but has excessive bass, could add compression reducing dynamic range to make car listening easier, lacks full HF clarity and a true stereo stage image may be compromised for an overall more pleasant sound more suited to driving.

The one thing the aftermarket head unit manufacturers seem to have missed is what Dolby have done. Most modern Dolby multi speaker systems have auto room configuration. You place a reference microphone in the room and their system models the room acoustics to set gains and E.Q. Most cars have fairly cheap speakers and auto eq could pop the HF and bass units! Research the use of rare earth magnets in small loudspeakers because they could offer higher acoustic efficiency and power from larger cone excursions. I haven't seen many around yet!
I owned a high end car audio shop for many years and have built winning IASCA competitive audio systems.

This is just one of many cars I built. This was my personal IASCA winning car featured in Car Audio & Electronics in 1997.

So yea, I know a bit about high end automotive audio systems.

 

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The OP was only looking for a way to make their 2015 sound better. They have admitted they know little about the subject. They have several ways to go, none cheap. I certainly would not use Best Buy to attempt to move the DynAudio or even come up with the necessary pieces for a non OEM system. For that they would need the expertise of someone like 2phast or Aku who have expertise in that area. They needs a custom installer who knows the best product matches for non OEM should he choose not to use the DynAudio. IF they live near Chicago or St. Louis, there should be many places they could stop in and get ideas and estimates. That is probably what I would do if I had the money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The OP was only looking for a way to make his 2015 sound better. He has admitted he knows little about the subject. He has several ways to go none cheap. I certainly would not use Best Buy to attempt to move the DynAudio or even come up with the necessary pieces for a non OEM system. For that he would need the expertise of someone like 2phast or Aku who have expertise in that area. He needs a custom installer who knows the best product matches for non OEM should he choose not to use the DynAudio. IF he lives near Chicago or St. Louis, there should be many places he could stop in and get ideas and estimates. That is probably what I would do if I had the money.
She... but that is OK :) I know my profile pic isn't my better side lol
The installer at BB has done both my 13 and 15 EOS. Not saying he is an expert on the VW Eos but if he is not comfortable or knowledgeable with something he will research it and let me know or he will tell me he is not comfortable and I should go elsewhere.
He doesn't care if I buy the equipment at BB or anywhere else. He took the SmartTop out of the 13 and put it in the 15... He didn't have any knowledge of the SmartTop, but he researched it and said he felt comfortable uninstalling it and reinstalling it. Now he is comfortable with it and let me know he would be happy to do my sister's car or anyone else I knew that was interested.

I am not looking for a high-end stereo system that will runs thousands of dollars. I have a Kenwood 8706, it had a better sound with the DynAudio but it also had its downfalls with the Dynaudio. Do I think the BB installer can remove it from the 13 and put it in the 15, probably, but I am not sure that is worth it or even the route I want to take.
Is it worth it to take the system out of a 2013 or is it better to get new equipment?

I agree this thread went in a way more technical direction than I can do.

The other day I stopped by BB and spoke to the JR installer. He was showing me what the paper cones in the 15 are like and telling me the differences. Did I understand it all, not really lol but I do understand the difference between paper cones vs a better material.

Sorry for rambling on...
 

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Whatever you decide is Up to you. You could have the the DynAudio system transplanted. If you do Aku-Aku has an excellent write up detailing how to do it that you could provide to your installer He converted his Eos from the original 8 speaker setup and said it worked out well. Is the DynAudio system from the 2013 still operational? If you go full aftermarket to get the sound you desire almost certainly will require different speakers and possibly a larger amp than the Kenwood has built in. The Kenwood has a built in graphic equalizer which may allow for some tweaking of the system of the system If I read the right spec sheet.. Good luck whatever you do. Let us know how it all worked out.
 

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The idea that a aftermarket setup is "almost as good" as a factory Dynaudio system is far from accurate. An aftermarket system can be poor, very poor, good, very good and excellent. Much depends upon the quality of components you choose, head unit capabilities, crossover design and power. The factory Dynaudio system is light years better than the factory eight speaker configuration but would fall into the category of "very good" not "excellent" and can be easily judged "lacking" when it goes head to head with a quality high end aftermarket sound system..
I agree and bow to your superior knowledge ;)

My comment was based on what you’re likely to get from a Best Buy or similar. Car audio specialists will always be able to offer something better in exchange for more time and more money. Sorry for the lack of nuance!
 

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Is it worth it to take the system out of a 2013 or is it better to get new equipment?
That may depend on how much the guy wants to charge you to do the job versus the cost of a decent amplifier and speaker setup. Since you’ve found yourself a helpful installer, you could go in and ask him to present you with some options to choose from, including transplanting your Dynaudio setup. You can always come back here and ask for opinions ;)

I agree this thread went in a way more technical direction than I can do.
As with most car forums, many of the regulars here will be people who know their stuff and enjoy getting into details. Hope that doesn’t put you off!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That may depend on how much the guy wants to charge you to do the job versus the cost of a decent amplifier and speaker setup. Since you’ve found yourself a helpful installer, you could go in and ask him to present you with some options to choose from, including transplanting your Dynaudio setup. You can always come back here and ask for opinions ;)

As with most car forums, many of the regulars here will be people who know their stuff and enjoy getting into details. Hope that doesn’t put you off!
I am not turned off... been there done that with stuff I know a lot about, or at one time knew about.
I doubt the installer would charge me much. He has saved me money with a lot of things in the past. I also have friends that work for Chrysler that that are always willing to do things for some pizza and beer ;)

So I guess the main question is... lets say it was about the same price for a new amp and speakers or moving the Dynaudio system which way would you go and why?
Is the 2013 system better than getting new equipment?
 

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I’d say that if they can move the Dynaudio setup over cheaply, do that; if it’s expensive to move the Dynaudio kit over, buy something new.

Having checked out that Kenwood unit you have, it looks capable and you should get good results just upgrading the speakers to good speakers from a well-known name - you may not need to add a separate amplifier. I don’t know what prices are like for aftermarket car speakers but I can imagine two pairs of decent woofers and tweeters the right size to fit the Eos costing at least $300 - with installation and the other parts (cable adapters, speaker mounts etc) on top of that.

If you were using the factory head unit I’d have said to just move the Dynaudio setup over - but since you have an aftermarket unit you’re in a better position to get better results from third-party speakers. You can always improve on it by adding an amplifier, crossovers or whatever.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I’d say that if they can move the Dynaudio setup over cheaply, do that; if it’s expensive to move the Dynaudio kit over, buy something new.

Having checked out that Kenwood unit you have, it looks capable and you should get good results just upgrading the speakers to good speakers from a well-known name - you may not need to add a separate amplifier. I don’t know what prices are like for aftermarket car speakers but I can imagine two pairs of decent woofers and tweeters the right size to fit the Eos costing at least $300 - with installation and the other parts (cable adapters, speaker mounts etc) on top of that.
I have done some searches online to see what brand speakers are recommended for convertibles and one brand kept coming up.
Do you have any recommendations? I am curious if it is the same or different than what I have seen.
 

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I would say let @2phast give you recommendations as I’m in Europe. My guess would be you see something like Rockford Fosgate come up a lot and honestly I have no idea how good they are, but I also guess that they have equipment for different price points and the cheap stuff isn’t as good.

You can also search this forum to see what others have done - I think I remember someone installed Hertz speakers and was happy with them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The idea that a aftermarket setup is "almost as good" as a factory Dynaudio system is far from accurate. An aftermarket system can be poor, very poor, good, very good and excellent. Much depends upon the quality of components you choose, head unit capabilities, crossover design and power. The factory Dynaudio system is light years better than the factory eight speaker configuration but would fall into the category of "very good" not "excellent" and can be easily judged "lacking" when it goes head to head with a quality high end aftermarket sound system..
Do you have a recommendation for speakers, brand, size, and what to replace?
 
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