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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So it appears the wife and I "broke" our EOS automatic top the other day while trying to clean and re-lube the seals with the roof partially open. I know. I know now for sure that this should not be done. But that ship has sailed and I'd like to ask all the experts on the Forum for advice on where we can go from here.

Apparently the rear window panel moved down from the semi-opened position in which we had the roof, and when the entire panel lowered it did so in a crooked/uneven position, and after that the roof (or windows) wouldn't function in either direction.
Fortunately the front arms were locked into the front windshield pillars so we were able to drive the car to the closest VW
Dealership for some nice, expensive diagnostics. Three days later we are still waiting for some information, and the initial $160 diagnostic bill has increased to $500.

All opinions are welcome here. I understand the rear window panel has been returned to its correct position and now the top itself at least is in the correct position. However, the guy who we spoke to did not know if the windows and/or trunk were now operating correctly. So my question to everyone is this. Do you think at this point I have no choice but to let the dealership do whatever diagnostics they want, and thus charge me as much as they want to figure out what has gone wrong and needs to be fixed, or is it possible that if I am willing to forgo driving the car having it as a convertible, is it possible that the windows and sunroof will continue to work properly if I never want to use the convertible top again. The car is a 2012 with 75k miles, otherwise in mechanically very good condition, and since we only drive the car when we're in Florida for 4 months each Winter, if this scenario is possible, I believe it would be a smarter option than trying to sink who knows, $1,000 or even more money into the car just to continue having the convertible top work. We're old, and use the sunroof or drive with all the windows open much more these days that we drive with the top down.

Please, I am desperate to hear what the wisdom of the forum members think would be the best thing to do at this point...
 

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Were you using Voxmagna's "Vox Props" to hold the roof in a partially open state while you were lubricating the seals? These are a "god-send" for minimising the probability of uncontrolled roof movement whilst the hydraulic system is in a "stand-by" state whilst roof seal lubrication is under way. See the link below and all will be revealed:

Passenger roof beam not moving aside, so roof cannot close.

You need to have your vehicle examined by a VW trained and qualified Eos roof specialist to determine the cause and extent of damage to the roof mechanism and advise on appropriate rectification/recovery of any problems that may be present. World-wide experience has revealed an ordinary VW service technician is highly unlikely to have the experience and knowledge to do this by relying on the VW "mothership" information system as actual experience repairing roof problems is essential for a successful outcome one way or another.
 

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When you got the roof parts 'out of sync' it wasn't such a difficult task to get them back if you search this Forum for answers. The roof frame is very fragile and easily damaged until it is either locked in the closed position or stowed as a package in the trunk. Driving the car with the roof in an abnormal situation is very risky because wind forces can cause distortion and the roof might never close correctly and be leak free. Diagnostics isn't the answer to your problem, although the dealer can do things (Good and bad!) with their diagnostics kit which you can't. If the dealer thinks they can just plug in diagnostics and it will tell them what's wrong, they haven't a clue and I wouldn't have much confidence in them, or rather they could make things worse the longer they have your car!

I re read your post where you said they had got the roof parts back together but I think they are bullsh*ting you if they now say they aren't sure if windows and trunk are working? Once the roof parts have been manually (competently) returned to the closed state without other consequential damage, the roof, sunroof, windows and trunk locking should all work correctly. They may have some fault codes to clear but unlikely. This assumes your initial out of sync problem and not layers of other problems which may be caused by what they have done. Just leaving the battery to go flat whilst in their workshop can cause other problems.

Your first question should be 'Is a V.W EOS roof trained technician working on your car?' If the answer is 'No', I'd put the brakes on anything they are trying to do because in ignorance they could cause more serious damage. They should be looking at their shop procedure for 'manually closing or opening an EOS roof', not fobbing you off talking about diagnostics. You shouldn't need to think about an unusable roof, unless more damage has been done whilst driving it and with what they may have been doing? Once the roof is eventually closed, the sunroof and windows should all work normally, but if the roof has been distorted you could get water leaks past the seals and at some stage in your hot climate, the roof seals should still be kept lubricated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Your first question should be 'Is a V.W EOS roof trained technician working on your car?' If the answer is 'No', I'd put the brakes on anything they are trying to do because in ignorance they could cause more serious damage. They should be looking at their shop procedure for 'manually closing or opening an EOS roof', not fobbing you off talking about diagnostics. You shouldn't need to think about an unusable roof, unless more damage has been done whilst driving it and with what they may have been doing? Once the roof is eventually closed, the sunroof and windows should all work normally, but if the roof has been distorted you cou
Thank you both for your comments. Just to clarify something, the persons who we spoke to yesterday afternoon was not a person who was really familiar with our car and the work (or diagnostic) that was actually done on it. He was just the unfortunate person who we directed all our questions at and all he had to go on was some posted shop notes.

However, I agree with you both 100%, that no more work and no more diagnostic cost should be charged to us unless we receive confirmation that it is indeed a VW EOS trained, certified technician who has better knowledge of how the roof works. We've decided that we can both live with having this car here in FL and use it for the 4 months we are down here without being able to take the top down. If the Sunroof and windows and trunk still work correctly, we can live with that. Since we have another EOS, same year but with much less mileage and in near pristine condition in Georgia, we are going to think hard about selling that car while its still working great and maybe as "older folks" not having to go thru this issue again might make sense.

Thank you for your comments. Will post again when we know more about the car and where we are going from here.
 

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You've got the message. In the right hands your car should have been an easy fix, unless you made matters worse driving it with the roof part open? I'm in U.K so unfamiliar with your local. My impression of the 'Sunshine State' is that's where there are more cabriolets and shops that work on other brands are going to have some of the basic skills and knowledge. If you can't find a V.W EOS trained tech., Audi part of the V.W group, sell a ragtop convertible and the roof system is manufactured by the same company as the V.W EOS with some similarities. Audi dealers can access V.W databases and source V.W parts. In U.K we have a couple of independent repairers who have learned their craft and specialise solely on convertibles. You need those kind of people working on your car. Most run of the mill workshop techs underestimate the skill and knowledge required to work on the EOS roof. and can quickly find themselves out of their depth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Our EOS.... Final Chapter. So, after 3 days of the dealership not returning our phone calls we stopped by earlier today. Almost Immediately our Service Advisor told us that the news wasn't very good. And, apparently the non working roof was only half of our problems. The Good News - the roof is in its correct place and the windows are working. The Bad News -apparently 1 of the 2 Trunk Latches is not working and their "estimate/best guess" is that for about $1100 they can get a small enough person into the trunk, confirm diagnosis and replace the non working latch. They figure the top will work correctly at that point but we need to spend over a Grand to find out.

Well, that's only half the bad news. Apparently our Cam Shaft has "jumped" and is now damaged, and the timing is all messed up. Another $4,000 should fix that. At least the chief mechanic was forthright with us and he indicated that given the current condition of the car he didn't recommend that we throw more than $5,000 into the car with the possibility that the automatic roof still might not work correctly. Oh well. So we paid our $175 diagnostic bill, have taken the car home, parked it, and will be thinking long and hard about which "we buy junk cars" buyer is going to give us something worthwhile to rid ourselves of the car forever.

So, thanks to everyone who chimed in on the roof problem. Sadly there is much more no good news and this car is soon gonna be gone. Be Safe everyone.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You've caught my interest Paul C. Yes, the car is a DSG, but I do not know how to tell you about the mechatronics unit. Can you please provide me with more information on what that is. What I can tell you is that for months the engine made a noise on the Driver's side upon "cold" startup and then after 10-15 seconds it would go away. However, lately the engine is making all sort of low noises that do not increase in intensity or volume as the car is driven faster. The dealer says that the timing chain has "jumped" and as a result both it and the camshaft need to be replaced. Any helpful information you can provide about this would be appreciated..
 

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I don't think there's any tell tale, they just "go" and because VW don't offer the components separately, it would need a replacement of the mechatronics unit - which contains a bunch of electronics and hydraulic stuff, in a unit, attached to the side of the transmission. Flashing transmission lights and no drive are common indicators.

Regarding the other work, it appears you're in the trap of a barely-competent technician or garage charging you a fortune to learn how your car works. VW dealers in the USA seem to be the worst at this, probably because the bulk of their work is servicing 2-3 year old cars which requires about the same skill level as a dog fetching a stick consistently.
 

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Perhaps we can get some input from USA owners who have had service work done? After watching several U.K T.V programs showing USA firms working with cars, my impression is many are at home working on older cars that have carburetters and distributors, but not so experienced using a laptop to fault find modern cars with complex electronics? If they do any work, they expect computer diagnostics to tell them exactly what parts to change. That is also true of many U.K service shops but at least the V.W specialists have access to the mothership fault database and their guided fault finding algorithms. Very few can do engine component level repairs now as we have been weaned on low tech. skills to replace expensive modules with many repairable modules being sent to landfill for a small internal part failure.
 

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Not sure where in Florida the OP is located, but if they are within driving distance of Port Charlotte, I highly recommend Avenue Garage. Their VW techs are factory trained and yes, they are trained in the complex roof system as well. They are slow because they are a very busy shop, but worth the wait IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not sure where in Florida the OP is located, but if they are within driving distance of Port Charlotte, I highly recommend Avenue Garage. Their VW techs are factory trained and yes, they are trained in the complex roof system as well. They are slow because they are a very busy shop, but worth the wait IMO.
Thank you for that suggestion "New2WV", we really are not that far from Port Charlotte but at this point the larger issue
than the roof operation is the additional information the local VW shop gave us about the "noises" that the engine is now
making, which we originally thought from a scan of the codes to be a secondary CO2 pump malfunction. They have told
us that an entire assortment of engine work now needs to be done due to the timing chain "jumping" (whatever that is),
and apparently also has damaged the camshaft. Estimates of these repairs runs north of $4k, so on a car with roof and
other problems we have with much peace decided to part with the car for the best offer we can get. Its really a shame
because now every time we drive into the parking lot where the EOS is located, it visual beauty still causes our hearts
to miss a beat.
 

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an entire assortment of engine work now needs to be done due to the timing chain "jumping" (whatever that is),
Sorry to hear, that's about the worst thing that can happen to an engine if what they say is true. Because your car is at a V.W Stealership with high labor rates, I would consider the work in stages where you can have some control over costs and the choice to 'bail out' if costs go too high.

First is their diagnosis and further labor work needed to get inside the engine. From there they will have a better idea of damage and repair costs. That's the first bail out point decision - To carry on or recover the car and decide what to do next. I'm not sure how far V.W shops go about replacing broken parts inside engines these days, because they tend to list and sell expensive assembled parts? You don't need to use a V.W dealership for engine repairs, a good independent workshop repairing V.Ws or Audis may be cheaper?

Unfortunately, diagnostics isn't so clever to put up a warning telling you the timing chain has slipped and your engine could 'grenade' soon. But an experienced ear listening before you could make it worse by driving, might have reached that conclusion. Given our general comments about 'mobile mechanics' using one whilst the car was parked in the drive not being driven could have been helpful to you, but your thread starter was about a roof problem which a mobile mechanic probably wouldn't fix.
 
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