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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
EOS Rear Window Remove/Install Post 1 of 4 long posts

On a difficulty scale of 1-10 I regard this operation as level 8, with a high possibility of collateral parts damage. These are my instructions, I think there is not much in the VAG operation procedures and of course EOS rear windows are unique to the EOS.

Tools required:

Torx T25 and T27 bits.
1 pair of Vox special wooden roof props.
A special cut down T27 10mm hex short bit and 10mm combination ring spanner or my tool.
A modified extended handle 13mm open end spanner, can be an alternative to the window adjusting tool but fiddly to use.
An alternative VAS window adjustment tool - Extra long 300mm T25 screw driver, 13mm box spanner with welded tube extension. Note 250mm long T25 more common, cut handle back 15mm, i.e. shaft is 265mm long.
Black silicone gasket sealer.
Battery charger
Plastic trim removal tools.
Telescopic pick up magnet and long pearl catch claw tool for getting dropped parts out of window cavity.
2 large car sponges (to stop parts falling into window cavities!)
Masking tape.
White correction marker.
Waterproof top or full car cover
Much larger tarpaulin cover may be required if the trunk lid is swung out and the roof is temporarily inoperable as rain approaches!

Work on one window glass only as this allows comparison with the other side and keeps a reference alignment for the second window on the same side. Remove the rear seat squab. Pull upwards hard on the front edge to release the two black spring clips, then fiddle about to remove it at about 45 degrees. Afterwards throw a blanket or sponge over the seat tray as you will be working on it.

In order to carry out my procedure, the rear window glasses must be operated to the extent the window regulator can be moved to the top and bottom to access the regulator frame fixing bolts through large holes filled with black plastic plugs. Move the glass fully down. Open the roof to the point where the side flaps are hinged out to access the stowage compartments 'fish tanks' as shown in photo then see inside trim cover photos. Remove 2 black screws at the bottom of the side trim panel and further screw in the top seat belt slot. Do not remove the panel yet.

Start the roof open sequence until the hinged trim units swing out. Look along the top edge of the inner body fish tank and you see two silver clips holding the top of the plastic side cover. GOTCHA VW in their wisdom provided a very short length of wire connecting the tweeter speaker to the cover panel you are about to remove. Do not pull off the cover panel then lay it flat on the seat tray and rip the wires off the speaker! When you have a hand width gap on the front vertical edge, slide in your hand, feel for and un-clip the tweeter connector first.

Using a screwdriver, gently lift up under the two top clips the side trim cover is hanging on. Slide the side trim forwards and upwards to release it. The seat belt does not have to be removed, but the cover is more easily positioned out of the way if you pull the belt through, then tie it with a tywrap to stop it retracting.

The hinged trim unit which is still hinged out now needs to be removed. It is held by 3 T27 bolts in large square holes allowing alignment/adjustment and there is a flexible Bowden cable securing clip at the bottom. Gently pull off the black/gray plastic trim cover - it should lift off easily. You don't need to disconnect the electrics. Using the correction pen, mark 3 or 4 reference points to the body around the outside of the unit to get it back in the same position. Remove the 3 T27 bolts. The unit can be stowed in 3 or 4 places. Safest is probably inverted in the cabin on the opposite side of the roof stowage compartment. It can be stored in the 'forbidden' trunk space but NEVER operate the roof, it can be hung over the wheel (support with string or wire) and protect body paint. Note: to check power window and roof, the side flaps can be put back in the compartment with one bolt or even positioned on the inside or outside - but check the cables are not going to get trapped by the roof hinge as it folds back!

The next stage is to remove the outer (chrome) and inner weather strips with a high potential for damage to the outer trim. This is the most difficult part of the procedure. Both weather strips have a deep rubber channel which pushes over the top edges of the outer and inner panel edges. Before trying to remove these, slide a long length of masking or pvc tape under the edge of the chrome strip, the full length. This will help avoid damaging the paint finish underneath the trim strips. Also run a wider 2" length of masking tape below and parallel to the trim strip.

It is VERY EASY to launch in with a screw driver and bend the chrome trim, whether it is front or rear. The chrome trim is only sold assembled to the rubber weather strip molding and can be an expensive part. Furthermore, the chrome trim edges are pressed over long rubber 'blades' making it virtually impossible to put it back once lifted off. Both inner and outer (with chrome trim) weather strips are removed together, starting at the rear. Look carefully at the exposed seals. The inner strip at the rear has a molding that connect to the trunk seal 'tube' with a loose rubber inner stiffener core. Another part of the seal flap runs underneath the rear corner trunk seal. You need to carefully start separating the end of the inner glass seal to lift it upwards. They may have used a mastic to get a smooth fit to the body panel in the corner. Remember that when you re fit the weather strip. I use black silicone gasket. It sticks well works well, and can be picked off to remove it. you should now be able to lift the inner weather strip starting at the back just enough to get the rubber parts free of the body metal and trunk corner seal. Do not lift the whole strip off yet. Now go the the front of the inner and outer weather strips. These are more complicated. Once again the rear weather strip is molded and fits into the vertical door seal. Carefully detach the end. The outer weather strip front end is even more complex. There are a couple of rubber pegs in the molding holding the seal flat to the door opening. but in addition there is an elastic band type extension on the molding with a peg that fits just inside the small opening into the cavity. This is a pig to remove and re-install. You need a small led light and a pair of long needle nose pliers. Now the tricky front strip with chrome.

The gap into which you slid your masking tape is actually under the chrome strip and if you lever upwards along its length, you will pull off the chrome and never get it back. You can exert a gentle pressure but not so much it lifts the chrome strip away. The rubber slot in the seal needs to be 'rolled' slightly upwards and backwards to free it from the top steel lip. At this stage the glass is still in the door at the bottom, but it will move a little outwards as the seal comes off. Using a wax crayon, mark the position of the rear end of both slot seals on the body, work so you can press them back in the same place.

With a blunt 6mm flat blade of a screwdriver, poke it in the rear end of the outer seal and UNDER the edge fold of the chrome strip. Gently lever until you can feel some movement but do NOT allow the chrome strip to deform. Be patient! Now repeat along the rear 50mm of the seal making sure you protect the body panel paint. The weather strip should start to lift. Slowly repeat moving to the front of the outer seal whilst pushing in a rolling over motion with the flat of your hand. The less screwdriver you use, the less paint damage under the trim. I found a thin bladed paint scraper quite helpful. You should now have both seals lifted along their length and just hanging at the front. Carefully lift both strips away, without tearing the slot in the seal at the front. Remove the black foam 'L' shaped gap filler from the front. Remember to replace this BEFORE fitting the inner and outer weather strips. It easily be forgotten and you will wonder afterwards where it fits!

Remove the black panel which supported the inner weather strip. The front bolt is hidden. At this stage remove all the plastic cover grommets, as these holes are required to access bolts. Where there is a large space below a bolt, stuff in your car sponges to catch the bolt if it drops. I find removing a bolt on the last 2 turns with the magnetic pick tool the safest. You can waste half an hour fishing around in the bottom of the window slot cavity for a dropped tool or bolt!
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
EOS Rear Window Remove/Install Post 2 of 4 long posts

.......Go back to your side trim cover hanging on the seat belt and carry out 2 repairs. First is another example of VW bad glue not working. At the front top inside the panel there is a black plastic right angle 'shelf' which drops into a slot as the cover is replaced. It will probably have become unglued, proving that VW hot melt glue doesn't work! Put a liberal amount of black silicone on the glue line and press it back. You can now splice a pair of 450 mm long wires on the tweeter to extend the length. Keep the extended tweeter wires clear of the seat belt cassette when refitting the side cover.

With the window glass still at the bottom, look through the speaker hole with a small led light and you will see 3 silver 'discs' arranged in a triangle which clamp the glass. These clamp the glass through large holes allowing it to be moved about a long way. By adding some reference marks, the job of re-alignment after installing is a lot easier. however, be aware that the glass alignment may not have been correct to start with and some back and forth fiddling may be needed to get the correct result. The bottom glass clamp is easy to reach, so mark around the edge of the disc on the glass with at least three diametrically opposite points or run the correction pen around the glass as far as you can. Now motor the glass to the top and repeat for the top two glass clamps.

The window regulator frame also has movement on its fixings. There is a triangle pattern of three fixing bolts about 100 mm down from the top and a fourth bolt at the bottom in the speaker hole. Look at the lower bolt and you will see it has a T25 Torx center with a 13mm flanged nut. Try to make some location marks on the frame and steel body panel you can use for alignment. Getting everything back nearly correct makes the whole job a lot easier.

You are now ready to remove the window regulator and glass. It is impossible to disconnect the controller connector without removing the regulator/glass assembly. The roof has to be open to get sufficient height above the rear window slots to remove the regulator and glass. It doesn't have to be fully open and stowed in the trunk. In fact this is a bad idea because you are left with painted roof parts stowed in the fish tanks and there's the problem of what to do with the hinged flap unit you removed. Best solution is to motor the roof so the top sections over the rear window slots are as high as possible, then prop the roof as shown in the photos earlier.

The VAG service op. says remove the rear window glass WITH regulator. I found that an impossible task with a big risk of scratching the window glass and damaging paint on the top edges of the slot. Perhaps if I was VAG trained I would know how to do it! The problem is the regulator frame is mounted on 4 threaded pillars and it is these that can be adjusted for depth with the extra long T25 driver. GOTCHA: You don't slacken these 4 13mm fixing nuts until you have determined how many turns (outwards) they are set to. Mine were set to 4 turns out. The total number of turns on a pillar is 14. 'Outwards' is the problem, because they extend into the slot space and foul up trying to remove the regulator frame and glass together. I tried screwing them fully in and still had the same problem. Therefore I prefer my slowest but safest method. Set the window glass at the top. Using the combination ring spanner and shortened T27 bit, remove the top two screws clamping the glass to the frame. Use your magnetic pick up! Carefully motor the glass to the bottom. Through the speaker hole and whilst holding the glass, remove the third clamp and withdraw the glass through the slot.

Although fiddly, you can just about remove the 3 +1 flanged regulator holding nuts using the lengthened open ended 13mm spanner. It is a lot easier if you make up my version of the VAG tool using an extra long 300mm T25 driver and box spanner. Hold the spacer pillar with the T25 driver and slacken the 13mm flange nut. If you didn't do it before, screw in the pillar to the stop whilst counting and noting the turns for each stand off pillar and expect 3-5 turns. Repeat for the other 2 top pillars arranged in a triangle. Finally repeat for the bottom flange nut but even screwed right in, it may foul and have to be fully removed. With the regulator assembly resting on the bottom pillar, withdraw it upwards until you can reach the white old style controller connector. Hook a screwdriver in at either end to release the claws, pull off the connector and withdraw.

Do what you have to do, replace the regulator assembly or controller and prepare for re assembly and alignment afterwards. Reverse the procedure to refit the regulator frame, then the glass, using your turns measurements and marks. Don't fit the slot seals or anything else yet. Put your hands through the speaker hole and check the loom wire to the controller is well clear of the regulator and held with one clip. Temporarily fit the hinged flap with one bolt into the cavity. Manually push the roof forwards taking pressure off the two props. Take all windows down to their bottom stops, then operate the roof close switch (Up). until the top roof members are fully closed and locked. With the front door closed, raised its window. Now slowly raise the rear side window watching how its seal runs against the front window glass. The VW procedure only refers to adjustment of the 13mm regulator fixing pillars. However, whilst these adjust the glass in and out according to pillar spacing, there is only a small amount of movement up and down and virtually none horizontally. The glass clamps are your coarse adjustment for horizontal and vertical correction.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
EOS Rear Window Remove/Install Post 3 of 4 long posts

.........This is my glass alignment method: You have to adjust the glass position horizontally for a gap of 9mm +1-1mm to the edge of the front window glass. Now you understand why you only work on one window at a time! The top edge of the front and rear glass should be level and when fully closed in the top seal the rear glass should sit between the engraving marks, relative to the seal. The glass should sit in-out at some position I could not find well defined. If the rear glass sits too far in its front seal will not contact with the front glass and have little or no contact with the long outer wiper slot seal. Note that contact with the outer seal is far more important than contact with the inner slot seal, but try to achieve both. I got the front seal about right first, then went on to fit the slot seals and repeated the glass alignment checks. Before refitting the slot seals, I lubricated the rubber slots with Krytox for easier removal. It is important to check the top front and rear glass edges are centralized in the roof seal. The bottom adjustment piller has most effect on in-out position but you should also be looking for even contact between the glass and vertical seal, adjusting the top two adjustment pillars if necessary.

An important GOTCHA is not to distort the regulator frame. This can happen if the pillar fixings are at the wrong settings when the 13mm shoulder nuts are tightened. It is best to start with only the top two pillar spacers adjusted outwards to say 4 turns and the third lower pillar in the triangle group set to say 3 turns out. First get the overall geometry in the horizontal plane correct adjusting the glass position if needed. Not much is said about the large circular glass clamps but they have a huge range of adjustment. It is recommended (from experience!) that you gently clamp the regulator frame using the top two and bottom pillar nuts then 'wiggle' it about to its centralized position and tighten the nuts. Then go to the three glass clamps and adjust the glass to get the top edge level and the gap to the front window glass 9mm +- 1mm. You cannot easily access the glass clamps from the top once the slot seals are fitted. By centralizing the regulator frame first, you will have some adjustment range to fine tune using the window tool when all the seals, hinge unit and speaker have gone back. If you are a contortionist then using my T27 special tool you may be able to slacken the glass clamp screws through the speaker hole. Certainly the bottom one, the other two need small hands and position 69 on the rear seat tray. The in-out depth adjustment will centralize the glass relative to the slot seals AND put more or less pressure on the front vertical glass seal. To much pressure is a bad thing because it deforms the seal and increases motor drag for both front and rear windows. I put some Krytox on the vertical seal then raised the window glass to see the contact surface. I decided that less contact and seal deformation was preferable. I used thin paper(or feeler gauge) to check for even contact pressure on the long slot seals.

After adjusting the top two and very bottom regulator frame spacers and tightening the holding nuts, I then wound out the third spacer until I got contact with the back of the regulator frame, then holding the spacer with the T25 driver, tightened the holding nut. Before replacing the slot seals at this stage, I ran a length of pvc tape across the top outer edge of the body panel and Krytoxed the channels, hoping (next time!) they would lift off easier. Refit the black metal plate, align the rear of each slot seal vertically with your wax crayon marks, then fit the ends of the seals into their corresponding parts, including getting the short 'elastic band' thingy connected at the front. Push the front and rear slot seals over the steel edges and check they are correctly aligned to the bodywork with the opposite side. Be aware that others may have worked on your car and not got things back correctly. Now is the time to get it right. Re check all your glass adjustments and make small adjustments if necessary. With the roof closed and both glasses raised, do a hosepipe leak test. After refitting the interior trim cover it is hard to see water leaks. If you get leaks at the rear glass front vertical seal, you may have to move the glass inwards by reducing the spacer depth 1/2 turn and rechecking contact area and position relative to the front glass and roof seal. When done replace all the black plastic tool hole access plugs.

Now you have to refit the hinged trim unit. If you made the marks before removal, you should be able to pick them up, tighten the fasteners and job done. But you should still operate the roof forwards and back to check when the hinged flaps close, there is a gap all around with no rubbing or sticking. The flaps close against plastic parts which should have a rubber surface bonded to them (to stop rattling). One of mine had been lost and I replace both with some rubber foam strip. Finally, check your alignment of the slot seals and glass with the other side (which could be wrong!) Refit the speaker support with loom grommet, the bass speaker and connector.

When you are happy with the slot seal, seals and glass alignment, refit the interior trim cover with the roof part open and both hinge flaps hinged outwards. BUT REMEMBER to connect the tweeter speaker first and remove the seat belt tywrap! Lower the cover down until the top two clips rest on the support edge and the black front plastic part you re-glued earlier, sits nicely in the slot. Push the cover back from the front edge and fasten with 3 screws - 2 black at the bottom, 1 smaller near the top seat belt slot. Replace the rear bench seat.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
EOS Rear Window Remove/Install Post 4 of 4 long posts

........Appendix
All along I have been wondering about Doomsday fault scenarios on the rear (side) window. I was lucky that my controllers were faulty and only went half way down for roof operation, but I had full manual control on the door switches. I was also lucky that whilst the roof faulted at the rear window drop stage, the roof controller was intrinsically healthy. I was therefore able to get the window glasses up and down to reach the regulator fixing bolts (UP is better than down) and I could lift the roof up higher to get the regulators out of their slots once I learned the roof would work if I manually took the windows down first. But what if you have no roof or window operation? I don't have all the answers but here are some ideas.

1. The roof works but is prevented from advancing because one or more window controllers are faulty. Answer: if the fault is in the front door windows requiring repair, there is no problem, because you open the door and can do everything with the roof closed. I think the same might also be true for a sunroof failure (head lining removed.

2. The fault is in a rear window but there is still manual control from the switches i.e the window regulator hardware is o.k and not jammed up. You can repeat what I did and operate the roof provided the window glasses are powered down to their fully open bottom stops. But the glasses will need to be raised to access the regulator fixings.

3. The rear windows do not operate and are 'stuck' in some position but you can still hear a click from the motor unit when the switch is pushed. Most likely the regulator wire has jammed up. You cannot force the glass down because the worm drive motor will not allow it and you cannot easily remove the motor. If the glass is stuck at the bottom, it may be possible to get to the 3 motor unit fixings through the loudspeaker hole. Once the motor is released from the frame, the regulator wire spool may come out and release tension on the wire. the regulator wire is between the glass and the frame. If the inner and outer slot seals are removed it may be possible to pick up the regulator wire and break it. The glass would then go to any position BUT since the control and motor are jammed, the roof will not operate. The next step is to remove the regulator assembly with the roof closed. I tried this and whilst I has able to remove the regulator, I could not remove the glass. Smashing the glass may be the only option and we still haven't got a working roof. To make matters worse you can't get past the fish tanks, because the rear flaps are closed in their horizontal position. However, they work with a Bowden cable and the electrical connection is only for the sensor. So you could in theory get to the cable attachment cable from the trunk and disconnect or cut it. Provided you put the flap in the position the roof wants and the sensor is still connected the roof should operate. However, if the rear window glass is stuck up, you cannot open the flap, so smashing the glass is not so stupid. O.K so we can deal with the glass obstruction by by breaking it or the regulator wire. The regulator wire runs mostly vertical at the back of the regulator. May be possible if the outer slot seal is removed first, then a thin steel blade with a ground 'V' cut is slid behind the regulator frame. Although the most vulnerable component at the top of the frame is a green plastic pulley wheel. Knock that off and the wire goes slack and we can drop the glass but still can't remove it or the regulator (roof closed, hinged flaps closed). With the glass dropped down, we stand a chance of opening the side flap with the Bowden cable from the trunk end. Once that is open we can remove it or operate the roof if we can remove the motor and controller from the regulator through the speaker hole and attach it to the new regulator. You don't need the glass, the regulator has built in limit stops. With the rear window glass down, the opening clear and the motor unit attached to the replacement regulator we can get the roof into the semi raised position, making regulator and glass removal a lot easier.

The more I think of this the more I'm inclined towards smashing the glass, but it doesn't solve the problem if the glass carrier on the regulator is covering the regulator fixing bolts. I looked carefully at the regulator fixed in the slot and can only think of one solution (which I haven't tried as my regulators are good). If the regulator assembly is locked up and will be replaced anyway, it can be broken. If the regulator wire can be broken, the glass is free to move to a position where the glass clamp screws are accessible, released and the glass removed in one piece saving money. To do this the glass would either have to be at the top (easiest) or at the bottom (contortion through speaker hole). The regulator wire runs around a green pulley whose center is located 16 cm back from the front edge of the window slot. You cannot see it because it is between the outer painted bodywork and the regulator frame. Looking into the slot at the glass side of the regulator you can see the silver circular disc which is the pulley spindle but chances are your window glass will be in the way and you can't get to the glass clamp screws. The regulator wire runs vertically downwards 12.5cm back from the same front edge reference point. Using a length of welding wire with one end bent into a sharp hook there are 2 possible entry points to hook the wire and pull it off the top pulley. Unlike the front window regulators, there is no high tension on the wire. The best entry point is from the top to try and hook the regulator wire and pull it backwards over the top of the pulley towards the rear.

You cannot see what you are doing, but when your hook wire won't pull up you know you have it. You can also slide the hook wire in from the front, but I think top would work best. If you think you have pulled the wire off the pulley, hang on to your fishing wire until you can grab the glass, because it should fall free to the bottom.

Voxmagna 19 August 2015
 

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Vox,

Magnificent and extremely valuable work on your part documenting this procedure for posterity.

Thank you for your consideration and kindness for sharing this with the Eos community.
 

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Fantastic work, Vox. I hope I never have to do this on our car, but it's great to have such an excellent DIY just in case.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is nothing on the web anywhere! Just keep a copy in case one day you need to do it yourself or tell somebody else how to do it. Otherwise just appreciate why a dealer might want to quote a lot of money and why it should be a dealer that knows what they are doing.

There are similar issues extracting rear windows on other 2 door saloons, but they don't have the front to rear glass and glass to seal alignment issues of a cabriolet to deal with.
 

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Fantastic effort!!
Thanks Vox
 

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Wow Vox, I am in awe.

And I am not a little scared about encountering problems with the rear regulators.
Already had both fronts replaced less than a year ago.

Thanks for your efforts and all the info.
Peter
 

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Well done. Terrific detail. When I got my Eos in 2007 the dealer had to replace the right rear window because the glass had a big chip in it. They never did get it right even after several attempts.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
They never did get it right even after several attempts.
That doesn't surprise me because the job already racks up a lot of labor hours and there is a limit to what they think a customer is prepared to spend. Until I discovered the factory adjustment procedure relies on very little wiggle room on the regulator mounting pillars, I could see that when you get to that stage following the service op., the trim and long slot seals are all back and they just expect to poke the VAS tool through the plugged holes and adjust. When they discover they have no more adjustment they would have to take it all apart and work out the 3 circular glass clamps give the coarse centering adjustment! By then it is probably 'wrap it up' and return back to the customer!

There is no VAS tool like the one I made to slide down the side of the glass to slacken the glass clamps.
 

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Hoping never to have to perform this task.
But if so you absolutely have shown the way
Thanks voxmagna for superb documentation
Edward
 

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Hi!

Thanks for a great post!

My rear right window is not working anymore, and is stuck in the upper position. With the VCDS program I can read the fault code 01334 on address 72: 01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389) 004 - No Signal/Communication, and on address 72: Door Rear right: Cannot be reached.


I think it´s the Can-bus module in the motor that is broken. Any ideas how to replace this? Since the window is stuck in upper position, I cant get the roof down....
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I share your pain. Since the left controller is o.k I think you must be looking at the right motor and controller as you suspected, unless you are lucky and there's a bad connector or no voltage(?). Either way you will need to get in there.

I already posted the bad scenario of a window stuck in the up position. You cannot lower the roof and get sufficient height clearance to pull out the glass and motor frame. I don't know how much patience you have? Once you remove the inner trim panels, loudspeaker and its mounting, there is a large hole which you can just get a mirror and small finger inside. You can just see the connector on the end of the motor and its wiring, try to get it off (hard) and spray the contacts with switch cleaner.

There is the faintest possibility you have lost dc power coming in to the controller but don't hold your breath! Stick pins in the power in wires and check for voltage. If there is none, you could be VERY lucky and have a wire/connector problem up stream. I can't remember if there is a separate fuse assigned, I think there is, but it is for both rear motors and your left is working.

Unfortunately, they didn't seem to think about how you would deal with a bad controller, motor or seized regulator wire, which is why some have said dealerships will smash the glass to allow the tray to come out through the top slot:mad:. I suppose at dealer labor rates, smashing the glass is cheapest. If you decide you have to do this, read carefully what I wrote about aligning the new glass on the frame. I was lucky and still had manual control, just no signal to the roof system and I was still able to move the glass with the door switch. I didn't check the price of a rear glass (tint is according to your VIN).

The power into the connector goes via the controller to the motor and the only way you can power the motor directly is by removing the controller part, which is impossible in situ. If you have to replace parts (the motor and its controller are sold complete!) make sure you test it installed in the frame sitting on the rear seat space and get no vcds errors before refitting.

By all means remove the trim, speaker and study the problem looking for a work around. But I think you will have to extract the whole assembly with or without glass through the top slot to do anything. There could come another problem. To expose and release the frame fixing bolts I had to move the glass up, then down with the roof part open so I could remove it from the top slot. Without the motor operating you won't be able to move the glass. If VW had really thought about this they would have separated the motor and controller then mounted the controller somewhere easier to access. Assuming the regulator was not jammed, it would then be possible to apply dc voltage directly to the motor and move the glass. C'est la Vie!

My next (long) post will be replacing my EOS rear heated window glass. But that will be another story. Good Luck.
 

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Hi!

Thanks for your answer!

I already have removed the inner trim panel, and the speaker. Managed to get the connector of the control unit and I have 12v.

Anyone who knows if it´s possible to run the roof in some kind of "service-mode" with VCDS? If I only could lift the rear window up, I think it would be easier to get the rubber weather strips.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Anyone who knows if it´s possible to run the roof in some kind of "service-mode" with VCDS?
You are asking for a miracle and there isn't one! Your problem is getting the glass into the right position. The VW roof system is protecting itself from damage. I was lucky and could still operate my windows with the manual switches. VCDS is 'Read only' as far as the EOS roof goes and that is deliberate. Put roof bypass control in the wrong hands and you get bigger problems. Theoretically I now know how to make the roof play tunes without the roof controller, but I haven't built the test box yet. Since it is possible to make the roof execute the parts of its sequence without sensors, I would be reluctant to post up details.

The motor receives its power on two terminals which stick up and are enclosed inside the clip-on controller assembly. The controller is a micro computer that is told what to do via digital CAN 'words' on one or two wires (purple wire to ground). If the controller cannot translate any CAN signals due to a fault and you cannot get to the actual motor terminals you are stuffed. If they had separated the motor from the controller and put the controller where you could get to it, you would have your miracle. For enthusiasts who like messing with this kind of thing, that is a practical modification worth doing, just on the rears.

Whilst this would have helped you with your controller fault, it doesn't help if the regulator wire jams up on the nylon winder drum. I have a suspicion about the older motor controllers. The motors are fine but the complete part is no longer supplied by VW (read my post) and there is some messing about to do to adapt their new motor and controller. My suspicion is after having low battery charge problems, both my rear window motors faulted. You think YOU have bad luck with one side failing!

I did some reading about CAN line voltage spike protection (my suspicion) and added external protection whilst I had trim panels off and wiring accessible. For all I know, they could have done something on the replacement modules, but I wasn't taking any chances.

In your case you have one option, provided you can open the trunk or do it with the red emergency pull. The roof motor has a pressure release valve which can be opened with a hex key. This removes any hydraulic pressure from the system. The next step is to open the roof locks, including the 'C' locks which are holding down the rear window and frame assembly. There's a ram on the left side (once trim is removed) which can be pushed to open the locks. From that moment on your roof is unlocked and the car should not be driven! With the help of another person, you can start moving the roof parts (squarely!) about because there will be less hydraulic resistance.

If your window glass is stuck right down, that is better because the side flaps can be opened without hitting the glass. If your glass is stuck part way up you are stuffed. Well I think you may be able to disconnect the wire cable operating the flaps, open them as far as you can to get to their bolts and remove them - which you have to do anyway to lift up the regulator assembly with motor. Once the flaps are removed both sides, you can then try manually lifting the roof frame back and up, just enough to get height clearance.

Your problems get worse if the glass is still stuck at the bottom and is covering over the holes to release the regulator frame. You already have to buy the motor and controller assembly, now you have a choice: Smash the glass to get access to the regulator frame fixings and pay for a new glass, or cut the regulator wire which allows you to pull the glass up to expose the fixing holes. Your glass will be saved, but you will be replacing both the motor and regulator and I don't know which is cheapest (probably the glass?). If your EOS is a few years old, I might consider going the replacement rear regulator route nuclear option, because you don't want to go back there again soon with a seized regulator.

The whole issue on the rears is a long journey, technically very challenging and time consuming, which is why a dealer workshop will charge a lot of money and may do it badly! Don't let a non-VW workshop loose on this job, they will be well out of their comfort zone.

Make the most of my help because as I get older my memory of these things gets cloudy!:(

I have added this edit because you have another option: You have checked the motor connector and 12 volts is present. If you have a 'scope you can check the CAN line to ground (purple or purple/white I think?) and look for data between 0 and 12 volts. If there is data then you can be 99.9% sure you will need a replacement new motor with controller so you go and buy that.

You can now plug in the new motor outside the door skin. If you re-scan with vcds at ignition on you should get no errors, proving the old unit was faulty. The motor relies on being stalled at each end of its operation to give the window open and closed feedback. That is how window calibration works.

When you 'calibrate' the window drop you take the window glass to the top stall and then down to the bottom service position stall below the blade seal, the controller counts the number of motor rotations between the two stall points, then works out the count for the top drop position and the normal one touch bottom position, which is usually just above the blade line. The window drop is then -X counts and the lower window position above the service limit is -Y counts from the top start point. There are no magical limit sensors. Once the window controller is calibrated, the controller knows how many motor turns to move to and in which direction. With a working motor controller that has already learned the limits I'm sure you could just connect it without the regulator and it would run in the correct direction and stop, allowing the roof to be operated provided the glass was down. However, a new controller may have to be taught the calibration first, unless they have pre-programmed it with a default value.

Using a soft strap on the motor gear as a stall brake you may be able to get a motor calibrated by stalling it when the other window hits the top and again when lowered to the service position. You should then get roof operation on the switch at least to raise the segments over the rear glass slots, because your new motor will run as the system thinks it is taking the windows down. If the glass is up and likely to foul on the flap as it hinges open, you MUST sort that out first. The flap has a sensor detecting open and closed. Unless you fool that the roof will fault if you just disconnect the wire. I have had both flaps units removed and tied up clear of moving roof parts so I could operate the roof. They will work if taped to the outside of the body but if you park them in the forbidden areas you must remember not to move the roof further back than raising the top segment, otherwise the hinge will crunch them!! You still have the problem of getting the regulator and glass out, but you might avoid having to manually release the pump pressure, latches and man handling the roof parts about. If you are thinking this job is outside your comfort zone, you are probably right.

Caveat: Although I've run the motor assembled to the regulator frame and no glass outside the door skin and operated the roof on its switch, I've not tried it with just the motor and fooling the stall. It's entirely your call!!
 

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Hi again!

I now have found fault and the reason of the non-working motor. The previous owner of the car had problems with the same window and had the motor and control unit replaced in 2011, and i think the workshop also changed the connector at the same time. What they forgot to do was to plug the 3 holes that are not used on the connector :mad: ! !
So when rain gets past the rubber seal by the window it drips down on the cable, to the connector, and into the control unit ! :eek: And we all know how good water and electricity works together....

So now to my new question: Does anyone know the difference between part no. 1Q0 998 792 VW2 and 1Q0 959 812 B ?

1Q0 998 792 VW2 is the part installed in 2011, but I can't find any of this on the "used market", but I can find several of 1Q0 959 812 B complete with regulator frame on Ebay for literally no money at all (€30 + €21 delivery cost). (1Q0 998 792 VW2 costs ~€285 new)
 
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