[mschumacher33]

Hi I am the recent proud owner of a 2006 EOS 1.6 FSI (UK model). I bought the car knowing that it had a roof problem, but everything else worked, so I decided to buy and try to fix it.
The roof button sends back the sunroof, drops the four windows, releases the bootlock and releases the rear window locks and the pump struggles in the boot for a few seconds, the boot does not lift, the rear window does not lift either, then I get the message Workshop, Close Roof !. I have checked the wiring to the pump solenoids and to the pump and check each solenoid individualy and all appears ok. I have also had the codes read and they are extensive ! But most point to the rear deck sensor and the right hand side of the rear window sensor..
I have just ordered my own fault code reader 11.11. but this is where I am at.
Oh and I have release the pistons on the two accessible cylinders in the rear windows to see if I can move it manually, but to no avail, it is solid, even when the two lower hooks release it briefly... ???

Oh and sometimes the sunroof fails to operate, even when using it's own button. The relay in the headlining clicks though.. This could be an overheating problem through continually trying the roof ????
Rear parking sensors and speed sensors appear to work fine.

 

[silvershadow]

Hi I am the recent proud owner of a 2006 EOS 1.6 FSI (UK model). I bought the car knowing that it had a roof problem, but everything else worked, so I decided to buy and try to fix it.
...........

You are really a glutton for punishment .

Hope you have lots of patience and photograph, document, mark alignments etc assiduously whilst you are trying to rectify the problems. If the car has alignment problems due to accident damage, you may find the roof is impossible to repair and you will then own a roadster instead of a convertible.

You are attempting something that I would not attempt without access to a workshop manual and measurements/design details of the jigs needed for correct roof alignment.

Good luck with this project; you will need it.

 

[MrT]

You're brave!
I would have never bought an EOS with roof problems (or better, more problems than a "normal" eos has)

 

[David Paul]

I am very sorry someone did not advise you prior to your purchase.

 

[voxmagna]

Let's not be too hard!

Here is a new member that is going to get stuck in and we can all learn a lot from his investigation and diagnosis. There are many who won't go further than change a fuse or put fuel in!

OP: You will need VCDS VAGCOM diagnostics, a decent workshop manual and excellent electronics fault finding skills. Even the manual may be sparse on roof alignment. As others said, do not underestimate the task. There are very few here who can say they fully understand the roof workings because it is just so complicated and finely tuned. However, because it is microprocessor controlled, it has inbuilt safeguards when system checks find things wrong and it will not operate. that's a good thing because a small component failure could get you a working roof cheaply. Do not start unbolting roof parts! There are several critical physical measurements and sensors which monitor stages of roof operation.

You need to have a good look inside the trunk around the roof pump. If roof seals have been leaking and you see evidence of water stains on or around the pump, that water may have got inside and killed it.

I don't know what manuals and parts diagrams others are using. You can pay for the Bentley manual or search and find things on the internet. There's also realtime online access to the oem manuals according to your VIN and you can pay on a daily access basis.

I just came across this too:

http://volkswagen.workshop-manuals.com/

The pump motor in the trunk has an internal over temperature cutout. It trips easily if you keep running the pump motor and takes about 5-10 minutes to reset itself.

You may not find a fusebox layout that is accurate for your car. But spend 10-15 minutes removing every fuse in the fuse boxes one at a time on the side near the steering wheel AND in the engine compartment and check continuity with a meter. You may get lucky and a blown fuse could give some clues once you find out what it feeds.

Diagnostics tells you a lot about what is going on. Don't be tempted to start pulling things apart until you can do a diagnostics scan. As with most diagnostics, they can lights up numerous faults maybe caused by one or two real problems, you just need to try to understand what depends on what.

Good luck - post your progress, I'm listening!

 

[David Paul]

Let's not be too hard!

Here is a new member that is going to get stuck in and we can all learn a lot from his investigation and diagnosis. There are many who won't go further than change a fuse or put fuel in!

OP: You will need VCDS VAGCOM diagnostics, a decent workshop manual and excellent electronics fault finding skills. Even the manual may be sparse on roof alignment. As others said, do not underestimate the task. There are very few here who can say they fully understand the roof workings because it is just so complicated and finely tuned. However, because it is microprocessor controlled, it has inbuilt safeguards when system checks find things wrong and it will not operate. that's a good thing because a small component failure could get you a working roof cheaply. Do not start unbolting roof parts! There are several critical physical measurements and sensors which monitor stages of roof operation.

You need to have a good look inside the trunk around the roof pump. If roof seals have been leaking and you see evidence of water stains on or around the pump, that water may have got inside and killed it.

I don't know what manuals and parts diagrams others are using. You can pay for the Bentley manual or search and find things on the internet. There's also realtime online access to the oem manuals according to your VIN and you can pay on a daily access basis.

I just came across this too:

http://volkswagen.workshop-manuals.com/

The pump motor in the trunk has an internal over temperature cutout. It trips easily if you keep running the pump motor and takes about 5-10 minutes to reset itself.

You may not find a fusebox layout that is accurate for your car. But spend 10-15 minutes removing every fuse in the fuse boxes one at a time on the side near the steering wheel AND in the engine compartment and check continuity with a meter. You may get lucky and a blown fuse could give some clues once you find out what it feeds.

Diagnostics tells you a lot about what is going on. Don't be tempted to start pulling things apart until you can do a diagnostics scan. As with most diagnostics, they can lights up numerous faults maybe caused by one or two real problems, you just need to try to understand what depends on what.

Good luck - post your progress, I'm listening!

Great post. You are absolutely correct. We will all learn from his project.

He needs all the encouragement we can give him and you started him off with excellent advice.

 

[mschumacher33]

Thank you ! Well most of you !
Firstly, my car has never been in an accident as far as I can tell, all welds, sealant etc are as per original and there looks to have been no water that I can tell in the boot.. There is some discolouration on the pump (motor end) but nothing serious..
The pump sound like it is working fine and seems to be pressurising the large cylinders in the boot with no problem.
I am sure it will be a cheap fix, but a time consuming one !!
My biggest headache is locating the hall sensors.. I can see no photos on the internet at all.. I am willing to buy the Bentley manual, but would not know where to look safely for it ? There is also a 379 VW one, but I cannot print it !! Well only in Portuguese ?? Grrr
My latest 11.11 VAG COM arrived today, so the plan for this weekend is to read the codes, wipe the codes and start again and read the codes again.. What do you think ?
My only worry is managing to move the roof to the open position and not being able to close it for Monday morning when my wife comes to use it again !!

Thanks for your support. I will not rest till I have it working correctly.. I am lucky to have a large warm garage where I can fiddle to my hearts content..
I have just completed a 5 year restoration on a Triumph Spitfire, where I have squeezed a "Buick derived Rover 3500 V8" into the space where there was a 1300cc engine and was looking for another project, but I dont intend the EOS taking 5 yrs ! 5 weeks might be too long !!

Regards

Steve

 

[voxmagna]

When you do the scan, save the results, clear the fault codes then re-scan without touching the roof controls, save the results. Then operate the sunroof only, rescan and save results. Finally repeat for the main roof, but only try one operation. Compare all the fault codes.

If you search around the Ross-Tech website you can find quite a lot about sensors in their wiki and I think there's something about EOS roof faults - although not much. I will send you a PM.

 

[mschumacher33]

Thanks voxmagna !

 

[silvershadow]

I have posted some Service Training documents for the Eos Electrical system on Google Drive which should be useful for you as it covers the roof electrical system in some detail as well as the entire electrical system. It is in 3 parts and I cannot combine them into one document:

Eos Electrics Part 1

Eos Electrics Part 2

Eos Electrics Part 3

I have also posted Service Training documents for Universal Mobile Phone Preparation, 2006 Radio Systems and the Cornering Light System. Whilst these are based on the MY06 Eos, the basic concepts should apply to the later models:

Cornering Light System

Mobile Phone Preparation

2006 Radio Systems

 

[mschumacher33]

Can anyone tell me what Dtc 02805 means in 26-Auto Roof 11.11.3? Fault Priority 5, Fault Status 01110000. . Feel like I might be getting somewhere. .. ;-)

 

[voxmagna]

The internet and Google is a wonderful thing:

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/VW_Eos_(1F)_Convertible_Top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owlG0ICF_s

If you are using a genuine VCDS you can register on the Ross-Tech site and get a lot of help. Diagnostics is a complicated area and queries are best directed to Ross-Tech, although the EOS roof is rather special.

I think VCDS is telling you you have a roof fault! Now you need to understand the Byte code to go the next step and work out what is faulting. None of this is easy, but persevere because the most unhelpful reply you may find on the web is 'take the fault code to a dealer and they will tell you what is wrong'.

If you are using a clone and post up scan dumps, then Sebastian will know and you will get chastized!

I haven't had to use my genuine licensed version of VCDS on the roof yet. However, I would think by now they would have the label files to turn the roof fault codes into plain English. If you are using a clone from an old version you probably won't have those. If you do have a licensed version, ask Ross-Tech if they have created the labels or helper file yet.

That video should have just made your day.

I am no miracle maker, but since your bad EOS is 06, you should have a 12 bit code sequence with 1 bit for each sensor in the roof system.

The first 2 bits are for sensors G556 and G557 which are located to sense the locking pegs are in position at the top of the windshield. If that partial readout you posted is in the normal drive position roof up, then those first 2 bits should start as 11 not 01, meaning your roof pillars are NOT docked in the windscreen frame . Well they may be physically docked, but one sensor is not telling the truth or is faulty.

Physical docking & locking of those 2 pegs is important as they probably stop your roof from blowing off at speed!

Check the full code for the roof sensor bits in normal drive position - roof and windows up, which should start as 111101100110 (12 bits older EOS). The roof system will not operate if the starting position sensors are incorrect. I would have expected a center console fault indicated??

PS: Ask the Admins if they can move this thread into Technical DIY where others can find and benefit from your work and my help.

 

[silvershadow]

......................................

PS: Ask the Admins if they can move this thread into Technical DIY where others can find and benefit from your work.

Your wish is my command......

 

[voxmagna]

Thanks, he should be on his way with what I have given him.

 

[mschumacher33]

Thanks Voxmagna for all your help. I think the binary code with the dtc is not related to the 12 digit binary code on the Ross website. I have run a live test in the closed position and all 12 sensors are reading correctly 1s and 0s. The live test shows the sensors are changing on the rear deck catches, but then it errors and stops. Then lists the fault I mentioned earlier. I am assuming that if all the hall sensors are correctly positioned in the closed or open position and they dont throw any dtcs themselves then they are not open circuit or failed closed.. ie 0 or 12V. As I cannot find a specific fault for the code listed anywhere I have rightly or wrongly assumed the ECU is faulty and ordered a s/h one to test later this week.. By the way, The only other fault listing a dtc is the alarm.. No response fault.. This couldnt be related could it ??? Regardd again Steve

 

[voxmagna]

You have to be an acrobat which you are, working with little bits of info you can pick up, plus your own knowledge and common sense.

Are you using VCDS in its realtime monitoring mode or just saying that is the error associated with the dtc? The video appears to show the sensor codes changing at each event in the roof opening and closing sequence so it is actively monitoring the roof controller, but I would also expect the dtc to be latched and store the sensor positions when a fault was detected.

I haven't got time to repeat the video, but if I have time, I will hook up vcds to my 07, check the starting bits, changing bits and how they finish up with the roof closed.

When you say changing the ECU, did you really mean that? If all the sensors are proved to be operating then I would suspect the roof control module. Is this a separate module or part of the engine ECU?

If diagnostics are reporting back what the sensors are doing and if they show changing bits throughout the sequence as in the video, I would have thought a control module fault less likely. If bits are stuck and not changing state then faults are reported, I would look at sensor outputs with a scope or multimeter, then check for a wiring or connection problem first.

I have not tried this with these sensors, but if they are of the solid state Hall type and you monitor their output wire with a digital multimeter with the roof open, you may be able to bring a magnet close to them and see a change of voltage state 0-5-0 volts. That would show the sensor as working, then there is the job of making sure the (magnet?) in the moving roof part is correctly aligned at the right point.

The alarm is motion sensing (doppler?) which protects the open cabin area when the roof is down. Sorry, I do not know if they are related or not. If you check the 'comfort' features with vcds you can change how the alarm operates or even disable it. If you are worried about it, try disabling the alarm function. If there is a hard fault in the alarm module I suspect vcds won't read its presence, talk to it, or allow customizations. But remember these problems can also be caused by wires or connectors.

 

[voxmagna]

I selected module 26 (roof electronics) measuring block 002 just like in the video. My 07 seems to change its bits according to the vid.

Roof up starting sequence is:

HS1: 111101100110 :HS12(bits)

Roof down:

HS1: 000011110000 :HS12

One of the other modules close by shows the 'Button Status' - they mean roof operation switches.

Even if your roof was locked out I would still expect these switch bits to change state. If they do then the roof controller is probably o.k.

Start:

BT1: 000000000 :BT9(bits)

Bits change 0-1 according to which switches are operated in the center console and are not changed by anything else going on.

Bit 1 = Open roof switch pressed, top down.
Bit 2= Close roof switch pressed, top up.
Bit 3 = Open sunroof switch pressed.
Bit 4= Close sunroof switch pressed.

I didn't discover what switches operate the other bits, if they are even used.

I can appreciate now that in your fault condition your roof may not even try to operate.

Normally clearing a DTC should clear it until that function is called, or it may not clear if the initialization check finds a sensor or module faulty and cannot handshake. Does your DTC clear and stay cleared until you try operating the roof, or will it not clear at all?

Have you looked at other measuring blocks? There is one for the pump.

Does the button (switch) status change when you try to operate the sunroof or top switches? You said at the beginning that the sunroof operation was intermittent. Why not concentrate on that first, as it is much simpler to understand. Check the sunroof switch with vcds, clear dtcs and see if they come back when just the sunroof is operated.

One other thing. I think I have covered the system checking sensors are in positions it expects. I read somewhere that the roof may not operate if the battery has been removed and the window glasses have not been re-taught.

Have you been through the manual roof open/close procedure? This is necessary to make sure you haven't got a physical jam or a latch problem. There is a latch in each of the C pillars which locks the roof. These latches are opened at the correct time in the roof sequence, before the trunk lid swings out. I think I remember you saying something about the roof appearing to be stuck solidly closed. You should be able to hear them operate. If you cannot manually put the roof through its open and close sequence (including releasing those latches), then I doubt if the pump will either. I think I would be doing that before changing modules and maybe entering the dark world of re-coding them to your car. You just introduce another layer of unknowns.

 

[mschumacher33]

Hi, Just thought I would thank you for your notes.. These have proved invaluable Voxmagna ! My EOS, in the closed position matches all the same 00's and 11's as the Ross Tech and your car and always has done. suggesting all the hall sensors are providing valid readings to the CPU.
I have still been unable to ascertain the meaning of my recurrent fault, that returns, even with the ignition off when I do a scan and clear the DTC. Still brings up 02805 system interference on 26 autoroof.
I have spent another weekend on the EOS roof and have finally bitten the bullet, due to the fact that the rain us not stopping, to twist the allen key on the pump and carefully manually open the roof ! It took me about an hour to do, as nearly all the trims are out and I took it as far as lifting the rear screen to the roof, (with the help of an assistant, I might add), keeping all parts level throughout the lift, and then lifted the bootlid and frame away allowing access to all parts
I can now see all the sensors and how they work !! All looks good, the strings, wires all pull as they should, I think ?
I have now cleaned all the seals with alcohol and removed the dross build ups and treated all with Krytox ! Now the rain has stopped too grrr !!
I then lowered the rook, locked it off and closed the bootlid and have done the same.
I then discovered, thanks to VAG COM that one of the rear glass segment cylinders has not quite met the sensor (using live measuring block#2) and the pump is now not firing up as a result.
I have now run out of time this weekend, but I intend moving the cylinder to the end of it's travel to get my reading "1" from that problematical sensor and hopefully power will be restored to the pump.
I found just one problem whilst I looked around and that was a tiny piece of steel swarf on the R/H side magnetic hall sensor (The one that senses whether the flaps are open to receive the roof bars) I am pretty sure it was not causing that sensor to give a false reading though, but we will see, when I get the pump going again in the week / next weekend.
I have bought a spare control unit, but it is a 2009 one, and I am not sure whether it could be made to work as it brings up a "G" in the thirteenth sector rather than a "1" or a "0". It does nothing if I substitute it for my own ????

 

[voxmagna]

Don't worry about time. You can expect an EOS roof repair to be at the Dealers for days and weeks whilst they are also learning and contacting the mothership. Of course their charges run to megabucks.

Now more importantly, we try to help each other here and what we need from you is LOTS of digital photos with the roof trim out, showing all the parts that very few of us may have even seen. P.M me if you want help re-sizing and posting photos on this site.

You also get to access your own online filing system for any future problems too. I know when you are in the thick of fault finding it is hard to write down and photograph at the same time. But it pays off helping others and yourself. Even if you go down a blind alley and get a negative result, that is worth posting. I have even done something and maybe broken a piece of trim, but telling others of the mistakes and traps helps others avoid the same problem.

Keep up the good work, you will get there in the end.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-stuck-closed-fault-02805-system-interference

PS: From my previous info you should have picked up that early cars like ours used 12 bits for 12 sensors and later models used 13 bits. Now I would like to know what the additional roof sensor is they put on later models and where it is. I doubt you would get that controller to work until you find out more about sensor 13. If your control module is like some others, you have to 'recode' it with VCDS to have the same long code as your present unit, but I'm uncertain how far you will get if it is looking for sensor 13. if you play with re-coding you must save the present coding so you can always go back!!

I got a used ABS module off a Golf V with a very similar part number and recoded that to be the same as my EOS and it was accepted. However, the plonker who sold it to me, did not know it had the same faulty pressure sensor as my old unit!

 

[mschumacher33]

Well, after 6 weekends I have a a working roof ! Loved every frustrating moment of it. Such a sense of achievement. Many many thanks to you VOXMAGNA. Didn't actually need any parts at all! All turned out to be a corroded broken wire going to the VW boot latch! Because I bought the car with the roof not working I did not know that the bootlid or trunk for the USA pulls itself down electrically. Mine didnt until I fixed the broken wire! I have loads of photos and will gladly pass on my knowledge to anyone wanting to repair their faulty roofs.. Regards Steve and thanks again Voxmagna.