thats what was highighted in system he was using. his system allows him to open th roof bit by bit. he had all the manuals as well as all the eos manuals and training guides. as well as lots of hand written notes from his course. i trust him thats most important. he believes the part after windows go down and sunroof moves back. there is no unlatching therefore the rams cannot push as its not unlatched hooked whatever. im devastated. how can i find where it is meant to unlatch. is it accessible?
EOS Roof not working
41 - 60 of 70 Posts
It is hard to help your kind of problem without eyes on. When you say the roof stopped at sunroof back and windows down, were both side flaps open next to the rear window slots?
That is easy peasy because both side flaps must open to allow the next stage which is the roof side sections to collapse into the spaces affectionately called the 'fish tanks'. The side flaps are adjustable to clear surrounding trim. I haven't done it but they are pulled down by a pair of Bowden cables running into each side of the trunk and it should be possible to check if they are slack and gently prise up a flap with plastic if stuck. Then you have access inside the cavity to adjust the flap cover.
If he has been on the course, is VW trained and currently working at a dealership, he has access to 'help' support by contacting the Mothership. They analyse all VW faults and help technicians when they get stuck.
That is easy peasy because both side flaps must open to allow the next stage which is the roof side sections to collapse into the spaces affectionately called the 'fish tanks'. The side flaps are adjustable to clear surrounding trim. I haven't done it but they are pulled down by a pair of Bowden cables running into each side of the trunk and it should be possible to check if they are slack and gently prise up a flap with plastic if stuck. Then you have access inside the cavity to adjust the flap cover.
If he has been on the course, is VW trained and currently working at a dealership, he has access to 'help' support by contacting the Mothership. They analyse all VW faults and help technicians when they get stuck.
Joined
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1 Posts
My Money Pit
My story sounds very familiar see below
Hi all
Well I’ve come to the decision I’ve fallen in love with a money pit
Bought a 56 plate Eos nice and clean and everything working. Well for a while.
Within 3 weeks I had a hydraulic line burst in the boot (roof half closed)
Had no choice so took it to VW after 2 days and £460 later they manually got the roof shut, but couldn’t get the windows to work. Well 10 minutes on Google and I found out that after the battery has been disconnected you have to reset the windows ( hold down the big window button for 15sec ) which VW had never heard of before. So as you can guess I lost all confidence in them. After getting a replacement hose fitted, roof still won’t work took it to 4 different roof specialists and another £280 later and a lot of blank looks. So after £740 I still have a roof that doesn’t work.
This morning took it to Cayman Auto’s in Dorking and £72 later got a full diagnoses and a list of parts needed. This included hydraulic roof pump & roof control unit + wiring all for a grand total of £1800 supply & fitted. Looked on line and can get all the part but recon for under £500. So any advise on how to fit or configure once installed would be welcome
Chris
My story sounds very familiar see below
Hi all
Well I’ve come to the decision I’ve fallen in love with a money pit
Bought a 56 plate Eos nice and clean and everything working. Well for a while.
Within 3 weeks I had a hydraulic line burst in the boot (roof half closed)
Had no choice so took it to VW after 2 days and £460 later they manually got the roof shut, but couldn’t get the windows to work. Well 10 minutes on Google and I found out that after the battery has been disconnected you have to reset the windows ( hold down the big window button for 15sec ) which VW had never heard of before. So as you can guess I lost all confidence in them. After getting a replacement hose fitted, roof still won’t work took it to 4 different roof specialists and another £280 later and a lot of blank looks. So after £740 I still have a roof that doesn’t work.
This morning took it to Cayman Auto’s in Dorking and £72 later got a full diagnoses and a list of parts needed. This included hydraulic roof pump & roof control unit + wiring all for a grand total of £1800 supply & fitted. Looked on line and can get all the part but recon for under £500. So any advise on how to fit or configure once installed would be welcome
Chris
A couple of other U.K members have used the same company and been satisfied.
There are 2 ways of resetting the windows. The normal way is to put the key in the driver door lock, turn it anti-clockwise and hold for a few seconds.
The EOS roof system is well outside the routine kind of work most dealerships do.
Whatever I do on my EOS I always need vagcom diagnostics. Without it you are working blind. You should scan your car now and save all the module adaptations before swapping anything.
There are 2 ways of resetting the windows. The normal way is to put the key in the driver door lock, turn it anti-clockwise and hold for a few seconds.
The EOS roof system is well outside the routine kind of work most dealerships do.
Whatever I do on my EOS I always need vagcom diagnostics. Without it you are working blind. You should scan your car now and save all the module adaptations before swapping anything.
Not sure what that means. The side flaps are spring loaded and released as the roof mechanism starts to lift up due to the mechanical action of the hinge releasing tension in the Bowden cables to each flap. This is the first time the roof pump is activated. If the roof does not disengage at the front first, then it sounds like something is jammed in the roof hinge mechanism, the roof latches pulled by those black strings (I think) are not releasing or the pump is faulty and failing to generate the hydraulic pressure.
From your fault codes it looked like a trunk lid problem, but if the pump is trying to pull the roof when it is still latched or the pump is faulty, that might explain the odd pump noise. Diagnostics readout can be misleading. If the main roof latches are not releasing, that might not be sensed and the pump would keep trying until it passed its overload threshold or the time taken in the program for the next stage was exceeded. In the latter case the diagnostics might report the next stage sensor as faulty, because the roof has not got there in time. When I was working on my roof, once the roof started to disengage at the front and with two people I could just about push it backwards and forwards, without releasing the manual pump valve.
I never got to finding out what the roof latches look like, only that the black strings seem to go a long way into the hollow roof section and normally have quite a lot of tension on them when the roof is lifting up and away from the front location points. The roof latches are extremely important at keeping the roof on! I suspect from the tension on the black strings they have some strong springs on them to fail safe into the locked position.
I assume you have cleared fault codes, left a fully charged battery off half an hour then re-connected and the same fault codes come back?
These are the stages opening the roof:
1. Side windows come down.
2. Sunroof slides back
3. Rear window hinges up over the sunroof (1st operation for the pump).
4. Trunk lid is released and moving backwards whilst the hinged cover flaps connected to the trunk hinges are opened to reveal the 'fish tanks'.
5. Sunroof with rear window sitting on top is lifted up as the front sections release.
6. The whole lot with the piggy back rear window moves back into the trunk and side stowage compartments.
7. Trunk lid comes forwards and sprung hinged covers connected to the trunk hinge by Bowden cables close at the same time.
8. Side windows come up and operation finishes with 'ding'.
Sorry been working flat out.
Voxmagna I have done everything you mentioned. What strings did u tighten and where are they located. Pictures? To me it seems after the Windows go down and sunroof goes all the way back. What the rose tech video the next stage is the rear window moving upwards. I am not getting this at all therefore all the other stages are failing. Is there anything regarding this stage I can check. Cheers man you're the most patient guy on the planet!
Voxmagna I have done everything you mentioned. What strings did u tighten and where are they located. Pictures? To me it seems after the Windows go down and sunroof goes all the way back. What the rose tech video the next stage is the rear window moving upwards. I am not getting this at all therefore all the other stages are failing. Is there anything regarding this stage I can check. Cheers man you're the most patient guy on the planet!
I haven't tightened them because my strings and roof are working fine now. I was trying to answer your question about what releases the front locks and said I could see the black strings running through the left and right sections which in my case had quite a lot of tension on them. I couldn't see further to confirm what they did because a lot up front is hidden and that would probably mean removing the headlining.
It is easy to mislead yourself when everything works!
I just checked my EOS and this the correct sequence:
1. Side windows come down.
2. Sunroof slides back
3. Rear window hinges up over the sunroof (1st operation for the pump).
4. Trunk lid is released and moving backwards whilst the hinged cover flaps connected to the trunk hinges are opened to reveal the 'fish tanks'.
5. Sunroof with rear window sitting on top is lifted up as the front sections release.
6. The whole lot with the piggy back rear window moves back into the trunk and side stowage compartments.
7. Trunk lid comes forwards and sprung hinged covers connected to the trunk hinge by Bowden cables close at the same time.
8. Side windows come up and operation finishes with 'ding'.
From that sequence it now appears both the trunk lid and rear window section have to be unlocked and free to move, otherwise the pump is trying to move something it can't and probably has an over pressure bypass inside. But I didn't rule out the pump being faulty and unable to generate the lift pressure.
The EOS roof is incredibly complicated and rarely do you get 'quick fixes'. Your original sensor faults could still be relevant but for other reasons. The sensors themselves may not be faulty but the roof action is seized and prevents them sensing the completed action. You say you hear noises from the pump which sounds like the pump starting its operation but is prevented from doing so, or the pump can't generate the pressure.
I hope that clears up the confusion I introduced. One thing you could consider is finding somebody with an EOS close to you. Even though much of the roof mechanics are hidden, it is far easier to have another car alongside, than try to get everything from a YouTube video.
Also get stuck in to these:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_379_d2.pdf
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_379_d1.pdf
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_379_d3.pdf
It is easy to mislead yourself when everything works!
I just checked my EOS and this the correct sequence:1. Side windows come down.
2. Sunroof slides back
3. Rear window hinges up over the sunroof (1st operation for the pump).
4. Trunk lid is released and moving backwards whilst the hinged cover flaps connected to the trunk hinges are opened to reveal the 'fish tanks'.
5. Sunroof with rear window sitting on top is lifted up as the front sections release.
6. The whole lot with the piggy back rear window moves back into the trunk and side stowage compartments.
7. Trunk lid comes forwards and sprung hinged covers connected to the trunk hinge by Bowden cables close at the same time.
8. Side windows come up and operation finishes with 'ding'.
From that sequence it now appears both the trunk lid and rear window section have to be unlocked and free to move, otherwise the pump is trying to move something it can't and probably has an over pressure bypass inside. But I didn't rule out the pump being faulty and unable to generate the lift pressure.
The EOS roof is incredibly complicated and rarely do you get 'quick fixes'. Your original sensor faults could still be relevant but for other reasons. The sensors themselves may not be faulty but the roof action is seized and prevents them sensing the completed action. You say you hear noises from the pump which sounds like the pump starting its operation but is prevented from doing so, or the pump can't generate the pressure.
I hope that clears up the confusion I introduced. One thing you could consider is finding somebody with an EOS close to you. Even though much of the roof mechanics are hidden, it is far easier to have another car alongside, than try to get everything from a YouTube video.
Also get stuck in to these:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_379_d2.pdf
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_379_d1.pdf
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_379_d3.pdf
Attachments
Voxmagna, I have a question what is the chance of a fault with centre part of roof motor as stated before I have replaced motor and solenoid but not the centre part that all the hydraulic tubes go into. Is it straightforward to take tubes out of this and replace as I have another one in house that is newer condition which I took pump and solenoid a from.
I've not been inside my pump but I'm not afraid to do it if I have to. You should be posting photos of what you are doing, it helps others even of there's no obvious conclusion.
What I do know is there are 3(?) electric solenoid valves controlled by the roof controller which steer the hydraulic fluid according to what is required in the roof cycle. I don't know where they are, but if the roof pump itself has more than 4 wires (power+thermal sensor) then that is where they will be. If vagcom shows all the sensors operating ok and there are no bent or distorted parts, I think roof faults will boil down to 2 parts - The roof controller (electronic control) or the pump, hydraulics and valves.
One thing I'm curious about is there is a fluid reservoir, but once you start disconnecting lines there is a likely hood of air getting into them. If this gets into the rams they will not move with the same force. My curiosity is therefore how do you bleed the system if a ram has an air lock and faults out the roof to stop? I will have a look through my resources but I'm sure I haven't seen anything yet. I have some ideas that you could push fluid through a pair with a hypodermic syringe and quickly connect the pair to the pump. You could probably momentarily run the pump by connecting power to it with the return fluid line open. But that is highly risky because you would need to know the positions of the valves and which line will be the flow and return. These pairs of lines carry fluid in both directions to either push or pull the rams. O.K I have the answer: The hydraulic system is a self-bleeding system. Opening and closing the roof twice bleeds the system. But check the reservoir level. OK I see a catch 22. Once you start opening lines, if you can't open and close the roof you can't bleed the system. You can expect the roof operation to be 'jerky' if there is trapped air, so you repeat the opening and closing until the hydraulics operate smoothly.
This is the recommended hydraulic oil:
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_CHF_202.pdf
If I was experimenting myself I would test the theory on the trunk lid because once you remove the trim covers you can more easily see what the ram is doing.
The real weakness in all of this is vagcom does no more than give feedback on sensors which limits it as a fault finding tool to do things like start/stop the pump, control valves and override sensors. All these things are really risky with potential to crunch a roof if you don't know what you are doing.
I am working on an idea that since nobody has a software diagnostics tool to take over fine control using CAN controls (and I am not a software writer!) All these things could be done from wiring to the roof controller where you could play your own tunes, independently of the control program. At least you get access to the real world roof events and not a diagnostics error message that stops you going further. At the moment I'm looking into wire taps that might be used that are not too bulky to produce my own 'mimic' panel. Looks like about 20 taps might be needed which I'm not over the moon about doing.
I forgot to add that just for fun I removed the trim covers last week which cover the trunk hinge. Removing the covers without breaking them was itself a challenge! Inside on the far left (and right) is the hydraulic ram responsible for opening and closing the locks, but I think the front top roof member lock is operated by a Bowden cable as the hinge operates. I think the lines were coded 51 and 52 (?) for the left side. This is the ram piston which has to be moved manually (with a plastic taper wedge) to unlock and then manually move roof parts. It has to be the first and last operation of opening and closing the roof. The locking system has status sensors feeding into the roof controller. I don't know why VW use this general purpose body tool apart from avoiding damage to the polished piston ram. It just seems the wrong shape. In your case you could try opening the manual valve on the pump and moving these two ram pistons forwards to the unlock position. Then with 2 people one either side, you can check each of the roof parts is able to move freely. If that is the case then I think that leaves you with a control electronics fault or pump hydraulics.
What I said about making my own real world mimic fault finding panel is true here. The roof controller has various 'output' functions usually done with a strong mosfet inside the controller box. Software can tell you that a particular output function is 'active' but in the real world it won't tell you if the output mosfet has died or a valve is faulty. Using a connector wiring diagram I know enough to tap the relevant wires and test. This won't be for everybody but the example illustrates how you might identify whether the controller or pump or both are faulty. The dealer approach would probably be to replace both and charge a lot of money, because they don't know how to test each component.
What I do know is there are 3(?) electric solenoid valves controlled by the roof controller which steer the hydraulic fluid according to what is required in the roof cycle. I don't know where they are, but if the roof pump itself has more than 4 wires (power+thermal sensor) then that is where they will be. If vagcom shows all the sensors operating ok and there are no bent or distorted parts, I think roof faults will boil down to 2 parts - The roof controller (electronic control) or the pump, hydraulics and valves.
One thing I'm curious about is there is a fluid reservoir, but once you start disconnecting lines there is a likely hood of air getting into them. If this gets into the rams they will not move with the same force. My curiosity is therefore how do you bleed the system if a ram has an air lock and faults out the roof to stop? I will have a look through my resources but I'm sure I haven't seen anything yet. I have some ideas that you could push fluid through a pair with a hypodermic syringe and quickly connect the pair to the pump. You could probably momentarily run the pump by connecting power to it with the return fluid line open. But that is highly risky because you would need to know the positions of the valves and which line will be the flow and return. These pairs of lines carry fluid in both directions to either push or pull the rams. O.K I have the answer: The hydraulic system is a self-bleeding system. Opening and closing the roof twice bleeds the system. But check the reservoir level. OK I see a catch 22. Once you start opening lines, if you can't open and close the roof you can't bleed the system. You can expect the roof operation to be 'jerky' if there is trapped air, so you repeat the opening and closing until the hydraulics operate smoothly.
This is the recommended hydraulic oil:
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_CHF_202.pdf
If I was experimenting myself I would test the theory on the trunk lid because once you remove the trim covers you can more easily see what the ram is doing.
The real weakness in all of this is vagcom does no more than give feedback on sensors which limits it as a fault finding tool to do things like start/stop the pump, control valves and override sensors. All these things are really risky with potential to crunch a roof if you don't know what you are doing.
I am working on an idea that since nobody has a software diagnostics tool to take over fine control using CAN controls (and I am not a software writer!) All these things could be done from wiring to the roof controller where you could play your own tunes, independently of the control program. At least you get access to the real world roof events and not a diagnostics error message that stops you going further. At the moment I'm looking into wire taps that might be used that are not too bulky to produce my own 'mimic' panel. Looks like about 20 taps might be needed which I'm not over the moon about doing.
I forgot to add that just for fun I removed the trim covers last week which cover the trunk hinge. Removing the covers without breaking them was itself a challenge! Inside on the far left (and right) is the hydraulic ram responsible for opening and closing the locks, but I think the front top roof member lock is operated by a Bowden cable as the hinge operates. I think the lines were coded 51 and 52 (?) for the left side. This is the ram piston which has to be moved manually (with a plastic taper wedge) to unlock and then manually move roof parts. It has to be the first and last operation of opening and closing the roof. The locking system has status sensors feeding into the roof controller. I don't know why VW use this general purpose body tool apart from avoiding damage to the polished piston ram. It just seems the wrong shape. In your case you could try opening the manual valve on the pump and moving these two ram pistons forwards to the unlock position. Then with 2 people one either side, you can check each of the roof parts is able to move freely. If that is the case then I think that leaves you with a control electronics fault or pump hydraulics.
What I said about making my own real world mimic fault finding panel is true here. The roof controller has various 'output' functions usually done with a strong mosfet inside the controller box. Software can tell you that a particular output function is 'active' but in the real world it won't tell you if the output mosfet has died or a valve is faulty. Using a connector wiring diagram I know enough to tap the relevant wires and test. This won't be for everybody but the example illustrates how you might identify whether the controller or pump or both are faulty. The dealer approach would probably be to replace both and charge a lot of money, because they don't know how to test each component.
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7 Posts
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7 Posts
08 Eos with same roof problem
When can I find these photos?Congratulations on a good result!
In 6 weeks you have learned a lot about EOS diagnostics and the roof components. You will no longer be scared off when the warnings come up - out with vagcom and get stuck in.
You just need to wait for some nice weather, particularly as Buxton is one of the highest places in the U.K and gets oh so cold.
Krytox in Spring ready for summer and you are good to go.
Being an EOS newbie, you can be forgiven for not recognising the absence of the trunk lock motor 'whir' when it is latched. Just a pity the diagnostics led you a bit of a dance.
Surprised nothing showed up in the locking module tests as it does with the door locks, or there wasn't an error on the center console display. I know if mine is left unlocked I get a visual and audible warning. But the bad wiring might have stopped all the usual warnings.
We need lots of photos! Do you know how to work with them e.g add overlaid text, arrows etc? Admins: Can we host these on the special drive if size reduced? Photos of the roof controls and sensors would be a good asset to help others.
PM me and I'll help.
Joined
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2,588 Posts
No-one has sent me any photos and text for me to process and post on their behalf if they need help to do this.
Hi everyone.
I had a a problem with the roof. While sunroof is opening and backside folding, my C pillar was detached. And all the operation stops, and get stuck, I can not even close my windows, windows open,and sunroof open. All the units were checked, another ECU is tried, but after all, only problem seems to be the trunk locking mechanism. I am waiting the service to replace it. Maybe it would be helpful for you if you have the same problem.
So, before changing the complete mechanism, just try another lock. Good lock.
I had a a problem with the roof. While sunroof is opening and backside folding, my C pillar was detached. And all the operation stops, and get stuck, I can not even close my windows, windows open,and sunroof open. All the units were checked, another ECU is tried, but after all, only problem seems to be the trunk locking mechanism. I am waiting the service to replace it. Maybe it would be helpful for you if you have the same problem.
So, before changing the complete mechanism, just try another lock.
Good lock......But a diagnostics scan and readout of fault codes should tell you where, when and why the roof stopped without guessing?
If your roof pump has a solenoid or shuttle valve fault causing insufficient pressure to close and open the trunk C locks, the system will know and stop roof operation. Similarly, if the trunk lid status sensor (not the lock!) is bad or the magnet dropped off, the same abort would happen.
That's why V.W built in diagnostics - for workshops to check which sensors the roof stops at and come to some logical conclusions, before charging customers for parts they may not need.
Hope you get lucky with the lock change, but please come back and confirm.
If your roof pump has a solenoid or shuttle valve fault causing insufficient pressure to close and open the trunk C locks, the system will know and stop roof operation. Similarly, if the trunk lid status sensor (not the lock!) is bad or the magnet dropped off, the same abort would happen.
That's why V.W built in diagnostics - for workshops to check which sensors the roof stops at and come to some logical conclusions, before charging customers for parts they may not need.
Hope you get lucky with the lock change, but please come back and confirm.
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6 Posts
EOS Convertible Top stopped working
Hello All, On our beloved 2009 EOS Lux, the convertible top stopped working. We bought the car in 2011 and had only minor issues with the headliner only folding 90 degrees instead of the required 180 degrees after the rear window part opened. That was fixed by VW. My wife came home a couple of...
www.vweosclub.com
Joined
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109 Posts
Have you tried the obvious ?
Check the hydraulic fluid level in the pump reservoir - there are Min and Max marks on it
Check the hydraulic fluid level in the pump reservoir - there are Min and Max marks on it
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