[Kaitar]

Before I begin, we'll start with the specs from my eos:

2007 Eos 2.0T
Manual Transmission
3,900 Miles

Ok, so yesterday I went to the airport (about 40 miles from my home) to pick up my mother, and I was waiting for about 30 minutes with the radio on and I went to go and get her from the passenger pickup area, and my Eos wouldn't start!!!!

The only way I could get it to start was to roll-start it. And then it was fine, and I drove it back home, and turned it off, and again, won't start, won't start, only way to start it is to roll-start it.

I dropped it off to the dealership yesterday and they called me this morning and told me that they got it to start up right away.

Any thoughts/advice??? I'm so sad/frustrated/angry about this.... T_T My baby's not working right!!! Help!

 

[Deanintemp]

I know it sounds like a stupid question, but are you putting the clutch all the way in before turning the ignition?

 

[Kaitar]

I know it sounds like a stupid question, but are you putting the clutch all the way in before turning the ignition?

Yep - clutch was all the way in before turning the ignition...

I guess no such luck for the easy fix

 

[Stephb]

Sounds like you flattened the battery i did this to my dads car once whoops! they went in b and q and left me in the car big mistake! they come out and the car wont start so we had to have a jump start

Stupid radio!!!

HTH

Steph xx

 

[Kaitar]

Sounds like you flattened the battery i did this to my dads car once whoops! they went in b and q and left me in the car big mistake! they come out and the car wont start so we had to have a jump start

Stupid radio!!!

One would think it was that - but the battery was still at a good level of charge, so it wasn't the battery, unfortunately.

The dealership just called me and let me know that they tried to start it again and it wouldn't start. So... although most people would be unhappy at their car not starting, in this instance I'm thrilled lol

 

[justcarkits]

Did you hear the starter motor turning engine or just nothing happening when rotated to start position ?
Starter motor noise present = key not recognised by immobiliser, no spark (sensor or ignition problem), faulty sensor.
Starter motor not heard = starter motor / relay fault, possible immobiliser issue.

Given your description sounds like starter motor / relay / loose connector to motor relay.

Manual transmission does not require the clutch to be engaged when starting (well mine doesn't anyway - '08 model)

 

[GOgg]

See this before when the alarm system is faulty and immobiliser switches into operation. Dealer fix I'm afraid if thats the problem.

HTH

 

[SiJ2000]

I agree.... Dealer should be able to fix....

 

[Kaitar]

Did you hear the starter motor turning engine or just nothing happening when rotated to start position ?
Starter motor noise present = key not recognised by immobiliser, no spark (sensor or ignition problem), faulty sensor.
Starter motor not heard = starter motor / relay fault, possible immobiliser issue.

Given your description sounds like starter motor / relay / loose connector to motor relay.

Manual transmission does not require the clutch to be engaged when starting (well mine doesn't anyway - '08 model)

No - no starter motor, just turn the key and silence silence silence.

The dealership's got the car now, and they are telling me that they are calling VW Corporate (in Michigan) and that they are trying to "find the point of failure". So, I think you're on the right track with the starter/relay thoughts. The dealership also told me that they had one other Eos with this problem and it was a loose connector, and so they tightened mine, and that was not the issue.

 

[Kaitar]

See this before when the alarm system is faulty and immobiliser switches into operation. Dealer fix I'm afraid if thats the problem.

HTH

I'm not sure if the car would have started with a rolling start if that switched on? Maybe someone could answer that?

 

[SiJ2000]

Agreed.... The car would not ignite with a faulty immobiliser relay....

 

[Kaitar]

UPDATE!

The dealership called me yesterday and informed me that the Steering Wheel Control Module had failed on the car.

What does it mean, you might ask - as I did

The Steering Wheel Control Module, aside from some of the more inane things like letting your stereo be controlled by the steering wheel controls, and the function of the horn also controls a part of the ignition.

So, as an extra feature, all newer VW's will not let you attempt to "re-start" the car when it is already idling. The Steering Wheel Control Module actually completes a part of the circuit for the starter to receive power. This module in its failed state in my car "thought" that the car was already running, so it would not complete the circuit for the starter.

So, this explains why I was able to roll-start the car, and why everything else was still functional.

So, after that explanation they also told me that they were overnighting the part in, and it should be fixed by the end of the day today.

Thank you all for your help!

 

[lanmarc]

Interesting!
Probably explains why I have to turn the ignition off in my EOS, and previous GenV Golf, to restart the engine after I stall it.

 

[GOgg]

Thanks for the feedback, most interesting and useful for reference.
Cheers

 

[Dean.92]

An old thread but sounds exactly like our problem

just brought a car 2007 TDI started fine many times whilst viewing and driving and then when home it won’t start then will.

If changing The Steering Wheel Control Module, do you need to get anything reprogrammed?

Hoping I can change this and then go onto the ignition barrel etc if needed

Thanks for your time

 

[voxmagna]

Are you doing this yourself? I thought I had a steering control module fault and when I looked at what was required to get to it, I was glad it wasn't faulty after all. Several have reported ignition switch problems. Since that's the easiest and cheapest part to access, I'd replace that first?

When the key is in or close to the lock, the immobiliser should be inactive and the red led on the door post shouldn't be flashing. If it's flashing then the key hasn't been read. The ECU stores and dates starting attempts if the immobiliser has stopped you starting the car.

AFIK 2007 cars did not have clutch linked starting. MY07 tdi hasn't, but my later 2012 V.W has it. If the immobiliser was on you wouldn't be able to roll start it. This proves a 'disconnect' between the ignition switch and control module, the module itself or the starter relay and solenoid. Diagostics won't report a faulty ignition switch, starter relay or starter motor and nobody has mentioned these yet? There are traps following somebody elses fault and thinking yours is the same - much work without a guarantee of success!

The first thing you do if the fault is still there is measure the voltage on the starter relay, then the starter motor. These terminals are BIG and easy to get to. If there is voltage on the starter relay when the key is turned, you have a relay or starter motor problem and there's nothing wrong with anything else. If no voltage then look at the ignition switch and control module.There may be a smaller relay driving the starter relay.

 

[Dean.92]

Thank you for the quick reply

yes I was going to do it myself. Watching a few videos of golfs it didn’t look to bad.

bit of a shame as we haven’t had it a day but when runnings it’s great

thank you for that

I’ll try that first and will check the light in the morning

it happens with both keys

 

[voxmagna]

I edited to include the starter motor and relay. If the problem is intermittent 'Now you see it now you don't', temporarily connect a long wire from the starter relay wire (red?) into the cabin and connect a 12V led to chassis ground where you can see the led. If you are very careful insulating wires to the led, you could even tape it outside where you can see the led through the windshield? If not a led, use a small 12V parking type or interior light bulb. When you get the no start fault, put on the headlight main beam and see if they are lit bright, in case there's a battery ground or battery fault.

If you remove the large ali under tray, the starter and relay terminals are easy to get to, but remember the amps are dangerously Uber high, so best to remove a battery terminal if making temporary connections. Next time the fault occurs, see what the led/test bulb is doing. If it's on during starting then there's no problem with the ignition lock or controller. If off, then go to the ignition switch, controller or any auxiliary relay they might use. Generally, what I post here won't be found on YouTube videos because I analyze fault scenarios from a clean sheet. There are many misleading YouTube videos, but they can be useful for taking things apart, although some brute force methods are not well thought out.

 

[Dean.92]

After getting abit frustrated today and speaking with the previous owner I have got some more information

They have changed the battery, ignition barrel and ignition switch (all does look very new from taking the plastic covering off)

So obviously it’s been a problem but they decided to sell it and not mention it

Annoying because when we were viewing it, it was starting fine as soon as we left problems started and today I have spent hours trying

Someone has had a go at the module because they have broke the clip and zip tied it together

I don’t know if this is going to cost loads and it’s worth trying to get a refund

Some things to tick off:
The led is off and the key is being read
It doesn’t have clutch starting switch
Battery has been changed
Ignition barrel has been changed
Ignition switch has been changed (previous owner)


How do you test voltage on the relay? Because it seems too far down in the plastic and I can’t get a voltage prongs on them

Unless I’m in the wrong place (with the fuse box under the bonnet for the starter relay)

When the key is in and turned once the radio comes on

But no ignition lights (air bag, handbrake or any of them lights come on) fuel gauge level doesn’t move

The main small red screen doesn’t

When that all comes on, the car will start

However that’s like one in 50 tries

 

[voxmagna]

How do you test voltage on the relay? Because it seems too far down in the plastic and I can’t get a voltage prongs on them

On my Tdi they put a right angle plastic cap on the end of the 1 pin plug which unclips. This works on most connectors: I solder a wire to the end of a sewing pin, sleeve over half its length and push it in from the back of the connector.

But no ignition lights (air bag, handbrake or any of them lights come on) fuel gauge level doesn’t move

That rules out a problem with the starter relay or starter. I think you have a main power feed (or ground) problem, not a control problem? Have you or anybody else scanned with diagnostics? It may find no fault if there's a main power line break but it sounds like some things are working and some are not?

You could go to the main high power fuse box in the engine bay looking for voltages both sides of each fuse? One row of fuses should be 'always on' and the second row from memory is power when ignition is on. Finding your fault could be hard and you probably need the shop service manual with wiring diagrams for your year and VIN as they vary a lot.

When you test for voltages (in the no start situation!), check with the test meter -ve on both the battery post AND the chassis. You should measure the same voltage. If different, you could have a bad ground connection. There are a couple of important common grounds underneath the battery tray. If you got the car at a low price it's probably worth fixing, if not even a trained auto electrician could notch up some labor time finding the problem.