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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,
I’m just about to give up on this car.

I’ve spent months on the car and no mechanics have been able to fix it (also there is no roof techs in Ireland it seems)

I have VCDS and the cars sensors are all reading fine there seems to be no damage to any of the 12 sensors.

so if not the sensors, what else could this be?! It opens absolutely fine in basic settings on VCDS .. this is the literal meaning of a MYSTERY.

please experts help me before I finally rid of this nightmare of a car..
 

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You need to give more information. How did the faults start, were you doing something, have you replaced anything since? Do all the windows go up and down on the manual 'All Windows' switch? Does the sunroof open and close normally on the sunroof switch?

There is a misconception that sensors are always a likely problem when most times it's their wiring or other problems. 2 months ago you posted about sensor timing as though your roof had some operation? What's changed now for it to have no operation?

Sensors aren't the only thing that stop a roof working - there's a roof controller and it's also looking for other things to be correct before anything is moved. The first stage of a roof op is windows down and sunroof back. Before you start thinking sensors, is that happening?

There are very few mysterious faults. Most investigation and problem solving is down to the person understanding what's going on and not jumping to conclusions without evidence and hard facts to go on.

The two main components most dealers will go straight to on an EOS roof are the roof controller and the pump. If a pump is really bad, they often replace both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You need to give more information. How did the faults start, were you doing something, have you replaced anything since? Do all the windows go up and down on the manual 'All Windows' switch? Does the sunroof open and close normally on the sunroof switch?

There is a misconception that sensors are always a likely problem when most times it's their wiring or other problems. 2 months ago you posted about sensor timing as though your roof had some operation? What's changed now for it to have no operation?

Sensors aren't the only thing that stop a roof working - there's a roof controller and it's also looking for other things to be correct before anything is moved. The first stage of a roof op is windows down and sunroof back. Before you start thinking sensors, is that happening?

There are very few mysterious faults. Most investigation and problem solving is down to the person understanding what's going on and not jumping to conclusions without evidence and hard facts to go on.

The two main components most dealers will go straight to on an EOS roof are the roof controller and the pump. If a pump is really bad, they often replace both.
So I bought the car not working as I knew the motor for the roof needed to be replaced. I changed it for a brand new reconditioned hydraulic pump and then instead of VCDS saying the pump was the issue, after it was replaced Error 02805 became the new error. The roof can open and close in basic setting when commanded to do so by manually entering the binary for each step of it usual procedure. When trying to open the roof, the windows go down, sunroof goes back, can hear the boot unlocking then nothing after that. The binary stops step before the C segment is suppose to lift which it doesn’t. All the wiring looks in perfect shape. And the ECU roof module has been checked and that also is absolutely fine. There appears to be no damage as far as I can see
 

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Hi. You say you can hear the boot unlocking after the windows go down, That doesn't sound right to me. Could you have wired up the vavles wrong or replaced the hoses incorrectly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi. You say you can hear the boot unlocking after the windows go down, That doesn't sound right to me. Could you have wired up the vavles wrong or replaced the hoses incorrectly?
No sorry, the boot unlocks as the sunroof goes back is what I meant
 

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That still doesn't sound right. The rear window should move first after the sunroof stops moving before the boot unlocks iirc.
 

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Doesn't sound right to me either. As soon as roof op. starts all the roof locks should then come off and at the same time the trunk lid is then held by the corner C locks. You should not be able to open the trunk lid once the sunroof has moved right back - confirm. I don't think assuming the diagnostics routine works, the roof should too because your diagnostics is taking the place of the roof controller. Diagnostics routines from vcds are for emergency workshop operation and ignore 'dependencies' which the roof controller would normally monitor to prevent serious roof damage. That's why let loose with individuals for DIY repairs, they can cause serious damage. Are you saying that vcds can go through all the steps - starting with windows, sunroof, lift the roof top members away then open the trunk lid and it swings back? Please confirm.

If you can do all that, the pump, hydraulics and solenoids must be working. So now you have to ask yourself what 'dependencies' would the roof controller need to check to start and advance through each step? You say all the sensors are correct, but from this Ross-Tech wiki, the trunk locking and pull down are involved. I know the top trunk lock is operated via the convenience unit and if that clicks with the remote fob it is probably o.k. However it has an internal status switch built in that tells the system if the lock is on or off.

The trunk lid pull down is controlled separately through the roof controller module, although both work together and need to be controlled to allow the lid to be secure as it swings back. I would look carefully at the lid locking and pull down and check they are working correctly on the remote fob. Some have said their trunk locks when the lid isn't being pulled down on to the seal. I think the pull down motor closing assembly also has switches to inform the roof controller when it's raised or lowered. Another dependency is the microswitch for the cover inside the trunk. If you use vcds to look at the roof controller 'Measuring Blocks' they should tell you what the status of those is.

Why was the pump replaced, water in the trunk? If yes, then all wiring plugs or connectors in the trunk need to be inspected and checked which means the locks, their modules, connectors on the roof module, and possibly the reversing sensor system. I throw in the last thing as an outsider because another 'dependency' is the reversing sensors which if operating will stop the roof operation. The sensor sensitivity varies but they can sense if you are parked too close to a garage wall, even if you think there's enough space behind for the lid swing out!! Some of these things and their status can be read from vcds measuring blocks. The roof controller and a row of water vulnerable connectors are behind the trunk left trim and the reversing control module is behind the right side trim.

02805 - Ross-Tech Wiki

Plenty to work through. Come back with more information, but only you can have eyes on if you know what to look for that is wrong or out of place.
 

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Hi there

Can I add a little to this. I recently had to get a parking sensor replaced (01547). Even when the system wasn't working, the roof would still work. Not sure if the roof controller can somehow access the sensors some other way, bypassing the parking assistance.

Hth
 

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The parking sensors in normal mode can be turned off in diagnostics but I suspect as part of roof safety they will be active for that. What I was suggesting for the long shot wasn't that they were not working, but they could be active if the rear and corners of the car were close to a wall or closed garage door? Normally you get a dash warning (can't remember it now) but if the OPs electronics are in a state, I don't know what should be believed. I tested the function by moving an 8X4 sheet of board around behind the rear bumper. It would be easy for the OP to do the same and see what happens? If a warning comes up on starting a roof op. or putting the shifter into reverse, that would be as expected. If no rear obstruction warning or the roof starts to open, then something doesn't feel right?

You think as I am that once water has been left in the trunk to destroyed the pump, all these other parts and their wiring need to be thoroughly checked over. The trunk area is a huge condensation trap. As I posted, if he can do part roof operations and the pump sound is normal, the pump, hydraulics lines, pump fuse and hinges sound o.k. But vcds emergency diagnostics for workshop use bypasses all the safety dependent switches, sensors and trunk locking feedback. When vcds reports a 'sensor error' I think it could mean ANY dependent sensor which could be the lock status contact switch, not just the roof position sensors. Vcds has powerful measuring blocks and I would expect lock functions and their status (outputs) to be covered.
 

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@Jamiemag I have to say I'm impressed with how far you got with VCDS on this.

I would say it's a really good idea to get hold of a VAS5054 or VAS6124 with ODIS, as that will run through guided fault finding - basically running those "basic settings" things you're doing manually, but check that everything is behaving as it should, and it will tell you what to check if the sensor readings aren't as they should be. It might not help you, but I think it will, and if you're in this far, it's worth a last roll of the dice.
 
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I’ve spent months on the car and no mechanics have been able to fix it (also there is no roof techs in Ireland it seems)
You've decided to try and do the fault finding and repair yourself including replacing parts and I can understand why even a regular V.W mechanic won't get involved in the actual repair. However, they do have all the software tools, ODIS and training to use it, procedures only they can do, and access to the V.W mothership for information.

If this is the last resort for you, why not consider getting a regular V.W technician to do a thorough detailed diagnostics, operation check and estimate using their software, but not go as far into actual roof repair? By the time you get a ripoff clone to work, learned how to use it safely and still got knowhere by Christmas and lost out on Summer top down driving, you could have got your answers? You have to weigh up the cost of paying a V.W (or Audi?) shop for diagnostics time, versus the value of selling your car with a non working roof.

IMHO I would still use my eyes on every electrical component, wire and connector in the trunk, but then I would know what I was looking for and can test some things without diagnostics using just a multimeter and wiring diagram.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@Jamiemag I have to say I'm impressed with how far you got with VCDS on this.

I would say it's a really good idea to get hold of a VAS5054 or VAS6124 with ODIS, as that will run through guided fault finding - basically running those "basic settings" things you're doing manually, but check that everything is behaving as it should, and it will tell you what to check if the sensor readings aren't as they should be. It might not help you, but I think it will, and if you're in this far, it's worth a last roll of the dice.
Thank you mate!
 

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Guided fault finding only works for specific faults that have been written into the algorithm and it's therefore imperfect. 'Follow this', 'Follow that', get to the bottom of the tree and nothing further is known. It also relies on humans making judgements on the data coming back.
 

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Seems 2 threads from same poster, making twice as much work for those trying to help. Anyway to combine the 2 to save confusion?
 

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Seems 2 threads from same poster, making twice as much work for those trying to help. Anyway to combine the 2 to save confusion?
I closed one of the duplicate threads when it first appeared however it appears to have been reactivated for some reason and certainly not by me - I am closing this thread and posting a note giving the location of this thread in the now-active original thread. Unfortunately, there is no way of easily combining these threads and maintaining continuity as far as I am aware.

silvershadow - Moderator
 
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