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Discussion Starter #1
Today, in order to find out why my mirrors don't fold out completely when it's cold, I disassembled the spare one I have. If you have this problem, don't do this! Just follow the recommendation at the bottom once you see how it all works. I took a spare mirror apart, you don't want to do this on the real thing.


The mk5-style mirrors are prone to corrosion. (The facelift mirrors have a plastic shell, so only the pre-facelift models are affected by this.)
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To get to the motor, you have to release this pin, which holds the spring down. You don't want to remove this, because it takes a lot of force (your full body weight)!
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You also have to pull back the rubber seal and pull out this plug, which is a real pain. I needed to use pliers to get it to release.
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Once you do that, you can undo three T10 screws to get to the motor...
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The cover of the motor is held on by six clips.
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And when you get in, you can see how it works! First off, the motor and the gears are clean, don't jump, and you can see how it works.
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So, why doesn't it work? My theory: look at the post that the mirror sits on. That's aluminium and gets corroded - and so is the part that the motor sits on. The motor is well lubricated - but the post it rotates on is not. So, if you take the trim off your mirror, you can get to the spring, and squirt some lithium grease into it. If you fold the mirror in by hand, a gap will open up at the bottom, and you can squirt some lithium grease in there too. A few movements back and forth should spread the lubricant... and hopefully that will persuade your mirrors to move even in winter!
 

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Aku - What does the strong spring do? Does the motor open and close the mirror in both directions or are they using the motor to work against the spring for one direction? I had been thinking about adding a pair to MY07 but the ali corrosion puts me off a bit. Although it seems the same problem with the non folding mirrors as I've had to re-paint my mirror brackets. The good thing is they are a universal satin black. PS: When you want to get cables back through (hardened) rubber grommets, stick a small screwdriver into some silicone grease and work that around first.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The spring keeps the mirror in place and provides resistance when pushing it in manually or clipping another car, bollard, tree or whatever (best avoided). The mirror is kept in place by the lugs on the mount lining up with the indentations on the ring that the motor drives, and the spring presses the mirror body, together with motor, down on to the mount.

I have a pair of facelift folding mirrors that I’m intending on fitting - based on my brief internet searching it seems people haven’t reported the same issue with folding not working properly, and the plastic body means no corrosion and no repainting, along with some other design changes (e.g. to the entry lights) that make them more maintainable. The revised mirrors are more correctly mk6- or Passat B7-style mirrors, and were introduced in mid-2008, before the facelift, and remained on facelift models.
 

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I have a pair of facelift folding mirrors that I’m intending on fitting
Is the triangular mount the same size as non-folding, or the pre and facelift folding versions? Will the newer face lift mirrors fit MY07, assuming the electrics are sorted? I have color matched covers. Are the cover sizes different for non-folding (like mine), pre and facelift folding versions?

How are they doing the motor stop limit at extremes? If there are only 2 wires direct to the motor and no microswitches, they might be using over current torque detection. Seizing up of the pivot will cause them to stop.
Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Is the triangular mount the same size as non-folding, or the pre and facelift folding versions?
Yes - I have all variants in my workshop at the moment and the mountings are all the same.

Will the newer face lift mirrors fit MY07, assuming the electrics are sorted?
Yes. The pinout should be the same as well. AFAIK the door modules don't change, so the mirror pinout wouldn't either.

I have color matched covers. Are the cover sizes different for non-folding (like mine), pre and facelift folding versions?
All pre-facelift mirror covers are the same. The post-facelift mirrors are completely different, as you can see on this 2009 Eos - so you'd have to get some in a matching colour:
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Here in Poland I paid about £20 for the official VW rattle tins in the right colour, and primed facelift mirror covers are about £6 each. No idea what UK prices will be

How are they doing the motor stop limit at extremes? If there are only 2 wires direct to the motor and no microswitches, they might be using over current torque detection. Seizing up of the pivot will cause them to stop.
That's my guess as to what's happening, yes - and as you can see from the plug, there are only two wires going to the motor. I can also confirm that there are no microswitches. And since post-facelift electronics are the same, there's no advantage there - just a better design that should get less corrosion and stay working longer.
 

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Thanks that answers the 'unknowns'. I've used rattle cans before, but not the VW one's. My painter said it's difficult to match my blue 'pearlescence' paint but I guess on the mirrors it's not like it's showing against other body parts. The corrosion you mention, I had that showing through on my manual mounts but took them off, primed and repainted them black.

Presumably wiring from the door controller to power the mirror motors is there? I'd have to check that, all mine have is power for the mirror heaters, adjuster motors and the led turn signals. Is there an option to enable power mirrors in the adaptation settings, I haven't come across it? I have the early orange led turn signals and I know they are included in the bulb failure monitoring because the internal connector get corroded.

Thanks - Vox
 

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The spring keeps the mirror in place and provides resistance when pushing it in manually or clipping another car, bollard, tree or whatever (best avoided). The mirror is kept in place by the lugs on the mount lining up with the indentations on the ring that the motor drives, and the spring presses the mirror body, together with motor, down on to the mount.

I have a pair of facelift folding mirrors that I’m intending on fitting - based on my brief internet searching it seems people haven’t reported the same issue with folding not working properly, and the plastic body means no corrosion and no repainting, along with some other design changes (e.g. to the entry lights) that make them more maintainable. The revised mirrors are more correctly mk6- or Passat B7-style mirrors, and were introduced in mid-2008, before the facelift, and remained on facelift models.
Is there a visible difference between the early EOS mirrors and the revised mirrors?
 

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Aku - I'm in total confusion as some pre-facelift mirrors have 11 wires and some have 13, even though both have built in puddle lights? I looked at my wiring diagrams for a fold-in mirror which shows 13 wires for both N/S and O/S and includes an automatic 'anti dazzle' feature on 2 wires - what's that? On the other hand, I've read a passenger door can have a tilt down memory for reversing.

Even more confusing, my wiring digram appears to show a manual switch (somewhere) to operate the powerfolds. Do the pre-facelift powerfolds automatically fold when the car is locked or do you do this manually before you get out?
 

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Aku - I'm in total confusion as some pre-facelift mirrors have 11 wires and some have 13, even though both have built in puddle lights? I looked at my wiring diagrams for a fold-in mirror which shows 13 wires for both N/S and O/S and includes an automatic 'anti dazzle' feature on 2 wires - what's that? On the other hand, I've read a passenger door can have a tilt down memory for reversing.

Even more confusing, my wiring digram appears to show a manual switch (somewhere) to operate the powerfolds. Do the pre-facelift powerfolds automatically fold when the car is locked or do you do this manually before you get out?
The anti dazzle is auto dimming, so when your rear view mirror dims, the door mirror dims as well.

All the power folding mirrors use a switch, the same switch for adjusting the door mirror, if you don't have auto folding mirrors though, you probably have a different switch. So if you retrofit the folding mirrors, you would also need to retrofit the switch. Later model EOS's can be configured to auto fold the mirrors on lock, via VCDS. Not sure what years this option is applicable for but can tell you 2008 is not one of them
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Is there a visible difference between the early EOS mirrors and the revised mirrors?
Yes - compare your Eos to the one in the picture above. If yours look the same, you have the revised mirrors. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Aku - I'm in total confusion as some pre-facelift mirrors have 11 wires and some have 13, even though both have built in puddle lights? I looked at my wiring diagrams for a fold-in mirror which shows 13 wires for both N/S and O/S and includes an automatic 'anti dazzle' feature on 2 wires - what's that? On the other hand, I've read a passenger door can have a tilt down memory for reversing.
My wiring diagrams show 11 wires at the plug end (13 connections on the mirror, as the heater, puddle light and indicator share the ground connection) for both - but the diagrams don’t show that the passenger side usually doesn’t have the anti-dazzle (-2 wires) but can have memory (+4 wires). So a top-spec driver mirror has 11 connections to the door control module; a top-spec passenger mirror has 13.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Presumably wiring from the door controller to power the mirror motors is there? I'd have to check that, all mine have is power for the mirror heaters, adjuster motors and the led turn signals. Is there an option to enable power mirrors in the adaptation settings, I haven't come across it? I have the early orange led turn signals and I know they are included in the bulb failure monitoring because the internal connector get corroded.
The wiring is built into the mirror.

One thing that may be an issue for you is the version of the door control module. The door control modules are strange, as they don't have coding options for folding or for anti-dazzle - they "just work". My door modules which are 1Q095970xC work, but there's something in the back of my mind that remembers from an earlier discussion (maybe about door entry lights?) you have an earlier version (A or B) that has fewer pins. Here is a picture of the B version - if you look at the top left connector (with pin 1 bottom right) you will see that pins 14 and 15 for the motor, and pin 16 for anti-dazzle, are absent. So you would need to upgrade the door control unit to at least 1Q095970xC - and I have no idea whether you can replace the control unit separately from the motor.
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The wiring harness in the door will not need any extra wires to support the switch with the mirror fold position on it - it just adds another different resistance to the mirror control switch.
 

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Yes - compare your Eos to the one in the picture above. If yours look the same, you have the revised mirrors. :)
Those are face lift mirrors, came out in 2009 here. I was thinking there was some mid year change, guess not.
 

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The wiring is built into the mirror.

One thing that may be an issue for you is the version of the door control module. The door control modules are strange, as they don't have coding options for folding or for anti-dazzle - they "just work". My door modules which are 1Q095970xC work, but there's something in the back of my mind that remembers from an earlier discussion (maybe about door entry lights?) you have an earlier version (A or B) that has fewer pins. Here is a picture of the B version - if you look at the top left connector (with pin 1 bottom right) you will see that pins 14 and 15 for the motor, and pin 16 for anti-dazzle, are absent. So you would need to upgrade the door control unit to at least 1Q095970xC - and I have no idea whether you can replace the control unit separately from the motor.
View attachment 23094

The wiring harness in the door will not need any extra wires to support the switch with the mirror fold position on it - it just adds another different resistance to the mirror control switch.
The interior auto dimming mirror has two trigger wires coming out which control the drivers side auto dimming door mirror. If you were to install that option, you would also need a auto dimming rear view mirror that has the outputs for dimming the drivers door mirror, along with the correct door control module. There are auto dimming mirrors that do not control a auto dimming side mirror, those would be a four wire mirror, the mirror that would control auto dimming for the door would have six wires. Also, don't go by how many pins are in the plug, all the plugs have six pins, in the case of a four wire mirror, it has two empty pins.
 

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Thanks both for your help. I've pressed the go button on a pair of pre-facelifts EOS 2006-20010 but I know there will be hurdles ahead when it's a nice warm day to start the work. MY07 EOS Sport doesn't have the auto dimming interior mirror and I'm not too concerned about that or want to go for the full RLS upgrade. How does auto dimming work? I'm worried they could be using an lcd screen and my powerfolds would default to be dim without a voltage applied. The wiring diagram shows 2 wires and a capacitor like symbol? I'm not bothered about auto dimming or memory dip down reversing feature, as long as I can get the basic functions of mirror heating, angle adjust, turn signal and powerfold. I will check if the door harness is already wired for powerfolds, if not there's more work to do. Wifey has got used to pulling in the mirror each time we park!

As you say, I could hit a problem with my door controllers, but I might have an electronic solution for that. There's a manual fold switch and I might need to replace my mirror tilt adjustment switch? So, the mirrors should fold in when you lock the car and come out when you unlock? Do you think the manual switch is there to fold them in to drive through a narrow gateway or into a garage, is it a rocker switch to either fold in or fold out?

aku - Can you say how the fold motor works? Are they reversing d.c for each direction fold in and out? Have you tried putting 12 volts on the fold motor wires? I asume the pre-facelift powerfolds would still work with the same basic functions as my manual mirrors? If I have to replace both door controllers and find them too expensive, I might design my own interface using the door lock power or immobilizer l.e.d for the trigger.

Thanks for your help. There's more to this than it seems.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
How does auto dimming work? I'm worried they could be using an lcd screen and my powerfolds would default to be dim without a voltage applied. The wiring diagram shows 2 wires and a capacitor like symbol?
They default to light without a voltage, fortunately. You'd want them to fail safe, so it's good that they do ;)

I will check if the door harness is already wired for powerfolds, if not there's more work to do.
There's no wiring in the door harness - the mirror has its own built-in wire, and the only other connection you need to care about is to the mirror switch. That doesn't need any extra wires. But...

As you say, I could hit a problem with my door controllers, but I might have an electronic solution for that. There's a manual fold switch and I might need to replace my mirror tilt adjustment switch? So, the mirrors should fold in when you lock the car and come out when you unlock? Do you think the manual switch is there to fold them in to drive through a narrow gateway or into a garage, is it a rocker switch to either fold in or fold out?
The mirrors don't fold by themselves. You will need to replace the mirror tilt adjustment switch with one that has the fold position on it. You turn the tilt adjustment switch to the "fold" position to fold them in, and turn it away from that position to fold them back out. I believe the PolarFIS plug-in gadget module can automate fold/unfold on lock/unlock.

aku - Can you say how the fold motor works? Are they reversing d.c for each direction fold in and out? Have you tried putting 12 volts on the fold motor wires?
The two wires are connected directly to the motor, so yes, it will be reversing DC for each direction. I haven't tried applying a voltage to the wires.

I asume the pre-facelift powerfolds would still work with the same basic functions as my manual mirrors
100% the same.
 

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Thanks, that all starts to make sense if I can summarise:

1. The mirror to door controller loom is one wiring harness.
2.. The door controller connector will have pins missing if it isn't compatible with powerfold mirrors.
2. The powerfolds don't auto close and open with locking unless you fit an aftermarket dongle (I'm surprised!) - but I read later versions of the door control modules can do this if coded?
3. The powerfolds use reversible d.c to open and close using an extra switch position on the mirror switch.
4. Dimming is done using a photo electric responsive layer like lcd. No power, glass is bright, apply dc and it darkens.
4a 4 implies the powerfold dimming mirror glasses are more expensive if they have an integral lcd. I bet they are the same size glass and could be swapped though?
5. The powerfolds have no electronics inside. Key components are horizontal & vertical dc motors, powerfold motor, heater, led turn signal & puddle light.
6. Standard and powerfold mirrors should both provide the minimum functions wired to either an early or later door control module.
7. The plastic painted covers for standard and powerfold pre-facelift mirrors are interchangeable. I assume the turn signal led strip will be too?

I think I will be making my own auto open/close interfaces, because the control is fairly simple and all the possible 'trigger' wiring is easy to find. There doesn't seem to be anything about them other than bulb failure that would set an error if a feature wasn't wired. There's no need for any CAN work either because I can use the front left and right door lock solenoids as triggers.

I'll do a vcds scan of a front door module to see if there are any powerfold options. If none then I'll know they are to early.

I found this Scirocco link (nice pdf) that has some useful info which I think covers the whole shooting match coding as well, which saves you writing it up aku !: :)


I've ordered the powerfold switch. If I find the door controllers aren't pinned, no vcds options in the firmware and no pinning or wiring for the powerfold switch, then I will design my own modules and fit them outboard inside each door.

When I fitted my RLS I replaced the headlight switch for one with the AUTO position. I did nothing to the loom so I'm keeping fingers crossed for the powerfold switch and wiring.

UPDATE:
Even though it's snowing and -2C I managed a vcds scan of the driver side door module 42. All the powerfold options are there to select but I won't find out more until I remove the door card. Worst case is there are no extra pins on the door control module connector and no pcb tracks connecting to them. Not so worst case is there are no pins but pcb tracks to where the pins go and they are active. The type code PR-6XE/6XK looks important?

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23103
 

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Thanks both for your help. I've pressed the go button on a pair of pre-facelifts EOS 2006-20010 but I know there will be hurdles ahead when it's a nice warm day to start the work. MY07 EOS Sport doesn't have the auto dimming interior mirror and I'm not too concerned about that or want to go for the full RLS upgrade. How does auto dimming work? I'm worried they could be using an lcd screen and my powerfolds would default to be dim without a voltage applied. The wiring diagram shows 2 wires and a capacitor like symbol? I'm not bothered about auto dimming or memory dip down reversing feature, as long as I can get the basic functions of mirror heating, angle adjust, turn signal and powerfold. I will check if the door harness is already wired for powerfolds, if not there's more work to do. Wifey has got used to pulling in the mirror each time we park!

As you say, I could hit a problem with my door controllers, but I might have an electronic solution for that. There's a manual fold switch and I might need to replace my mirror tilt adjustment switch? So, the mirrors should fold in when you lock the car and come out when you unlock? Do you think the manual switch is there to fold them in to drive through a narrow gateway or into a garage, is it a rocker switch to either fold in or fold out?

aku - Can you say how the fold motor works? Are they reversing d.c for each direction fold in and out? Have you tried putting 12 volts on the fold motor wires? I asume the pre-facelift powerfolds would still work with the same basic functions as my manual mirrors? If I have to replace both door controllers and find them too expensive, I might design my own interface using the door lock power or immobilizer l.e.d for the trigger.

Thanks for your help. There's more to this than it seems.:)
Auto dimming is controlled by the rear view mirror and has two light sensors, front/rear. When the front sensor detects no light or low light, the rear sensor is engaged. When the rear sensor detects light, it applies voltage to the mirror glass, the more voltage, the darker the glass gets. With no voltage applied, the glass reverts back to normal. So even if you have auto dimming glass, it won't be a problem vision wise.
 

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Thanks, that all starts to make sense if I can summarise:

1. The mirror to door controller loom is one wiring harness.
2.. The door controller connector will have pins missing if it isn't compatible with powerfold mirrors.
2. The powerfolds don't auto close and open with locking unless you fit an aftermarket dongle (I'm surprised!) - but I read later versions of the door control modules can do this if coded?
3. The powerfolds use reversible d.c to open and close using an extra switch position on the mirror switch.
4. Dimming is done using a photo electric responsive layer like lcd. No power, glass is bright, apply dc and it darkens.
4a 4 implies the powerfold dimming mirror glasses are more expensive if they have an integral lcd. I bet they are the same size glass and could be swapped though?
5. The powerfolds have no electronics inside. Key components are horizontal & vertical dc motors, powerfold motor, heater, led turn signal & puddle light.
6. Standard and powerfold mirrors should both provide the minimum functions wired to either an early or later door control module.
7. The plastic painted covers for standard and powerfold pre-facelift mirrors are interchangeable. I assume the turn signal led strip will be too?

I think I will be making my own auto open/close interfaces, because the control is fairly simple and all the possible 'trigger' wiring is easy to find. There doesn't seem to be anything about them other than bulb failure that would set an error if a feature wasn't wired. There's no need for any CAN work either because I can use the front left and right door lock solenoids as triggers.

I'll do a vcds scan of a front door module to see if there are any powerfold options. If none then I'll know they are to early.

I found this Scirocco link (nice pdf) that has some useful info which I think covers the whole shooting match coding as well, which saves you writing it up aku !: :)


I've ordered the powerfold switch. If I find the door controllers aren't pinned, no vcds options in the firmware and no pinning or wiring for the powerfold switch, then I will design my own modules and fit them outboard inside each door.

When I fitted my RLS I replaced the headlight switch for one with the AUTO position. I did nothing to the loom so I'm keeping fingers crossed for the powerfold switch and wiring.

UPDATE:
Even though it's snowing and -2C I managed a vcds scan of the driver side door module 42. All the powerfold options are there to select but I won't find out more until I remove the door card. Worst case is there are no extra pins on the door control module connector and no pcb tracks connecting to them. Not so worst case is there are no pins but pcb tracks to where the pins go and they are active. The type code PR-6XE/6XK looks important?

View attachment 23100

View attachment 23101

View attachment 23102

View attachment 23103
You are correct with the assumption that some controller modules can be programmed via VCDS to auto fold the mirrors on lock. I don't know what year vehicles this applies to and most all of the info I found dealt with controllers for the Golf or Passat, nothing concrete for the EOS part number wise. All I can tell you is that on my 2008, it can not be done. As you mentioned there are aftermarket products available to do this, but they require cutting/splicing your wiring inside the door. I thought about this option but was worried about reliability of these cheap products. Too bad there isn't a plug n play option.
 
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