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Discussion Starter #81 (Edited)
At least that's re-assuringly good news aku. Are you in a good position to test all these options (ie parts variables) with some certainty? Do you have enough information now to encapsulate your research for what actually works with what and create a chart or a matrix table - e.g EOS years, versions, compatible part numbers, wiring changes needed? It would be really helpful when searching for used parts, although I suspect there's still an element of uncertainty that a part may not give all features.
Here's what I know from the VCDS label file 1Q-42.lbl and pictures from the internet. GEN2 and GEN3 have different wiring, so replacing e.g. a GEN2 with another GEN2 is no problem. Basic = adjust and heat only; full = mirror memory, auto-dimming and folding.
Part numberGeneration
1Q0959701BGEN2 basic
1Q0959701CGEN2 full
1Q0959701DGEN3 basic
1Q0959701EGEN3 full
1Q0959701FGEN3 fullScirocco only. Module is a 1K part not Eos 1Q.
1Q0959701HGEN3 fullMk6 electronics. Module is a 5K part also used on the Eos.

So far I've learned the powerfold mirrors have all the basic features of XY position adjustment selectable for each mirror plus mirror heating. Additionally, auto dimming on the drivers side (any with passenger side as well?) linked to an auto dimming RVM. Mine has XY position feedback for glass lowering but I don't know what box is needed for that. Sellers will often post up photos of connectors on parts. I know pins 15 & 16 on the door controller are the powerfold motor drive and if they are missing, the door controller is the wrong version - that was really helpful. Do they leave out any other pins?
The E or H revisions have all the pins there - it was only the earlier controllers where they left pins out for less well-equipped cars.

As 2phast says, the E revision controllers are a safe bet. I don't have any other controllers in my possession so I'm unable to confirm compatibility with roof controllers. There could be issues combining an early roof controller with a revision H door module - it's not likely, but it is possible.
 

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Thanks, here's an example of an 'E' code motor 1Q0 095 970 2E ( Passenger) with an electronic module 1Q09 095 979 2C. The electronic module has firmware codes HW 006 SW12XX 070407. I would expect all the motors to be the same as they are pretty dumb and only the gearing and motor current would be EOS specific. It seems to me that it's the controller part that will define the features and not just the motor code and generation? It's easy to separate motors from their controllers and VW could mix and match them according to what features are in the car.

Should we be looking at the controller part number, software and firmware codes to determine feature compatibility? If your 'E' code controllers are fully featured and work, what information is on the controller part?
 

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Discussion Starter #83
As I understand it, the part number on the motor is for the combined motor and controller assembly. From mk6, you will see the controller 5K0959793x reused on several different models, and the changes will be in coding, adaptation and even in firmware - but the mk5 controllers are model-specific.

An "E" revision should have a controller 1Q095979xC (x=3 for driver; 2 for passenger), so the one you have found is correct.
 

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That makes sense now. The only problem sourcing a good used pair, is used drivers door motors (whatever version) seem far less common than passenger motors. I think this is because the driver side gets more regulator use and the nylon gear and its drum are more likely to get chewed up, so more demand?

On a quick sample search for EOS specific door controllers, EOS A & B versions seem more common and cheap, C versions not many, E versions more passenger sides & very few driver side. H version/Z20L plenty, but up to £200 each!!

I'll keep my eyes open, but I think I'll carry on with a universal circuit design that will work for any door controller any brand and future proofs if I ever need to replace one of mine.
 

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FWIW. The 07 Touareg rear view mirror has the exact same wiring configuration/plug as the 08 EOS. Brackets are not exactly the same and wouldn't interchange directly, but a EOS bracket could be fitted to the Touareg mirror and vice-versa.

The dimming outputs are a positive and negative. With dimming not active, the dimming positive wire reads .005 vdc. With dimming active at full, it reads 1.208 vdc. If the rear sensor is partially blocked, that is, only allowing a little bit of light through, the voltage jumps all over the place, from .075 to .095 vdc in my tests. Since these are designed to darken the glass based on how much light the rear photo sensor detects, this is to be expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
On a quick sample search for EOS specific door controllers, EOS A & B versions seem more common and cheap, C versions not many, E versions more passenger sides & very few driver side. H version/Z20L plenty, but up to £200 each!!

I'll keep my eyes open, but I think I'll carry on with a universal circuit design that will work for any door controller any brand and future proofs if I ever need to replace one of mine.
Yep - availability is roughly the same here in Poland, but the prices are more reasonable (£30-£70 for an E or H revision).

I've now decided to investigate those Chinese mirror folding modules, which should theoretically be "rewire and play", and bench test them on an old mirror. It seems like they're designed for cars that have folding mirrors as standard, but for those that don't have the mirror fold circuit, would work either on lock, or on a manual switch, or with the folding mirror switch with the addition of a couple of relays. You may be interested to know that, on earlier cars, some people had success using an Audi "361 relay" for making the mirrors fold. I believe this also involves modifying the mirror switch to get the right signal out.

It occurred to me as well that it could be fun trying to instruct my door modules to fold or unfold the mirrors using diagnostic commands over the CAN bus with some Arduino thing or other, but that would require investigating yet another whole new world. ;)
 

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I've now decided to investigate those Chinese mirror folding modules, which should theoretically be "rewire and play", and bench test them on an old mirror.
That's pretty much what I'm doing. 'Plug and play' will be several wire taps and most will be on the driver side door controller loom plug.

Manual control from inside needed some thinking about. The easiest is to add my own switch, which I was going to design in. But I don't like non-OE looking switches. There are limited places to put it on the door card but there are a couple of possible locations. Then I started looking at how their switch worked (I have one). The V.W switch is simple but uses an ADC in the door controller to detect positions. I think I've now found a way to use it in my schematic. The second issue is motor over current protection. There are 2 ways to deal with it. Simplest is to forget it and use a simple timer only allowing the fold motor to run say 10% longer than it needs. O.k until the mirror mount seizes, then the motor burns out. The second way is the built in current limiter in the motor power switching chip. Those don't always cut out and stay off, but can go into an oscillating switching state. I've looked at the door locking and tested what they do and the deadlock (safe) motor is what I will probably use. You also have to consider power down drain, because the mirror and locking circuits are powered from the 'always on' supply.

Initially, I was going to use the same design for each door. This would need 1 wire passed between the 2 doors for the manual control switch. Then I realised I could reduce component count a little and use one board in one place, but I would then need 2 wires to bring the passenger fold motor across to the drivers door. The big advantage of a single board is virtually all connections except power and ground would be taps on the driver side only control connector. Sometimes with their connectors you can push out the pins and solder a piggy back tap to make a neat connection. This approach also means the OE system stays wired and would work if my module was unplugged, losing only the powerfold function.

I've given an insight as to how I would design the mod. to protect the motor against stall and ensure there is low current drain. I'm waiting on a few components at the moment to bench test the schematic with both mirrors connected.

I'm not familiar with the simple relay approach. It's easy to turn the powerfold motor on and off manually, but if you hold the switch down too long the motor current in stall shoots up. My approach is to include motor over current protection at all times, even when using a simple switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Yes, I'm crossing fingers that those Chinese modules have over current protection built in and don't apply +12V for a fixed period. Since it looks like this German site is selling the same thing and they declare that it "automatically detects the end positions", my guess is that they use some kind of over current protection. How these modules interact with the door modules I don't know, but at least I'll be able to bench test them and see what current draw looks like.
 

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Thanks for sharing, their description looks like what I'm doing. The mirror powerfold function like my design is completely removed from V.W control electronics and won't interfere at all. You could still have the dimming function if you can get it to work. Search their page for the 'Installation instructions'. All in German, but there's a connection diagram, and I was right about the 'several' wires.

They use a software coded MPU, mine is discrete logic I have in my project box. If their diagram is correct there might be a flaw in their over current protection. Their diagram appears to show both mirror motors tied together. If that's true, then they are monitoring total current for both. What happens if one mirror seizes or takes longer to reach the end point? When you test them, reduce the supply voltage to about 9V to simulate starting with a low battery.

My biggest concern was keeping the mirrors 'In sync'. You don't want one out and one in, one not reached fully open or both closing when you are driving. There are no limit switches inside the mirrors and end points can only be detected by over current when stalled. An interesting test would be to half close one mirror, connect their module then trigger fully open or closed and see what happens?
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Yes, those concerns are why I'm planning on installing one on each side. Since the signals are taken from the lock motor and the door module output, they should stay in sync.
 

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When you start designing something from scratch you learn how everything works and the pitfalls. It's not where the sync comes from that's the problem. It's how they are doing the motor shut off sensing. For example, they tie both motors together to save the expense of one motor driver and the normal running current will be about 2X 1.2A rising to 2x 2A plus on stall. These are 'universal' modules and the approximate currents I have given for my EOS powerfolds could be higher on other vehicles? V.W transporter vans have huge (heavy?) mirrors and many on the internet want them as powerfolds. A universal controller design would preset a higher OC threshold. If they set their OC threshold to 4A, then one stalled mirror motor could burn out. If they set it to 2A then the first mirror to stall sends the stop signal and the second also stops where it is. Motor on start surge must be lower than the OC limit or soft started and there's a tradeoff made worse if both motors are connected together. They say they can control up to 10Amp. If true, then their motor OC limit could be set much higher than about 2A per mirror we need, but you can discover that during testing and there's a conundrum: If you use 1 module per mirror and cannot change their OC sensing level, it could be very high? If mirror open and closing times are unequal, then one mirror could be left partly open or folded. In my schematic, I have 9 wires on a common board, because each motor is driven and protected separately.

There's nothing wrong with using two of their boxes, which follows my original design concept. But you will have several connection taps to duplicate on each side. You really only need to detect one deadlock motor and I'm assuming there will be sufficient power source capacity from one side for 2 mirror motors, but I might need to look at fusing. They use 'ignition on' as the trigger to open them, but with a smart idea you can use one deadlock motor and one less wire. If you go this route, think about bringing the powerfold motor pair over to the drivers side and mounting two of their boxes in the driver door. It means you only have one door card to remove if you need to go in there (I see they fuse each module). You can then make parallel sensing connections across each module, but separate the mirror motors. Then you only have one tap to make to each of the driver side door controller wires like I am doing. If you are playing with different V.W door controllers that could be connected to the powerfold motors, I would disconnect both from each door controller plug.

Ask them for installation instructions in English or search Ali where they probably source them? If you need help piggy backing two modules on one side, PM me an English pdf of their install wiring, or translate the wires and I'll try to help. I could have used a PIC or Arduino, but the design effort is in interfacing, current monitoring, motor protection and reliability. You still need those and the board and box are not that much bigger using some old school cmos, which is stable and has great headroom for voltage disturbances.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
As for my challenge - I've decided to gamble (well, not really gamble, free returns) just under $12 on an OBD dongle that allegedly folds your mirrors when you lock the car and unlocks them when you open the car. An interesting gimmick if it works (and doesn't drain the battery while doing so)!
Guess what? The magic OBD dongle for folding your mirrors doesn't work. Good thing it had free returns!
 

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At least you have warned us all. I must have misread something because the one on that German link with all the wires you posted looked like it wasn't OBD II and should work, given my reservations on how it was dealing with motor over current. That's the way I will avoid OBD at the expense of patching wires.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
The one that requires wiring in is next up and should be arriving soon! That will get a bench test with a spare mirror to ensure it behaves correctly before it gets installed in the car.
 
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