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Discussion Starter #1
Since the stock halogen projectors are a bit weak, I decided to try some decent LED lights. The ones I chose are Narva Range Power: Narva is a brand of Lumileds, which is part of a Philips joint venture - and these are in fact identical to the Philips Ultinon Essential kit, which claims to be designed for projector bulbs. Disclaimer: these bulbs may not be legal to use in your country and are not certified for road use. Some countries may require headlamp washers to be fitted for LEDs to be considered roadworthy. In Poland my car passed its annual checkup including a test of the lights with these LEDs in but your results may vary.

Aside from the brand reputation and the fact that they're not cheap Chinese tat, these bulbs have braided wire heatsinks , which means they fit well in the headlamp housing. They have an adjustable collar, and they should be adjusted to 45 degrees so that the LEDs shine horizontally.

As you can see from the picture, the bulb is designed to have a light source the same shape and size as the original halogen bulb. The results are good - since I don't own a light meter, I figure that the relative brightness of the LED against a normal halogen bulb on my garage wall would work well enough to show this - but you can see that the LEDs are much brighter and produce the same beam pattern as the halogen bulb. Night driving is considerably improved, and I haven't had oncoming drivers flashing me, so I guess they don't cause issues.

The only down side is that they will show the bulb out warning - but Philips sell a warning canceller (irritatingly referred to as a CAN-bus adapter*) which works well. Don't be tempted to buy cheaper warning cancellers which are just big resistors, as they are not suitable for mounting inside the lamp housing, to the point of melting the lamp housing even after ten minutes' use (here speaks the voice of experience and of returning unsuitable items). The warning canceller is not shown in the picture of inside the lamp housing, the picture of the warning canceller itself is a stock photo because I'm lazy. The Philips warning cancellers have a plastic housing and, in my experience, whilst they do get hot, they do not cook the lamp housing.


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* A quick footnote on the CAN-bus thing: CAN-bus is the communication network that the car's control modules use to talk to each other. It has nothing to do with bulb monitoring, which is managed by the central electronics module - the component which sends the power to the bulbs. For some reason bulb monitoring is commonly referred to as CAN-bus monitoring - whilst it's true that the message sent to the instrument cluster to tell you the bulb is out is indeed sent over CAN-bus, this is hardly the most relevant part. Anyway, rant over!
 

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The comparison beam pattern looks good. What color temperature and wattage are they as they are whiter than tungsten (which gives the appearance of them being brighter).The braids acts as a heat pipe helping to remove heat from the lamp housing, although solid aluminium billet without fins is a shame when it looks like there's space on the circular part at the back to have done more?

It would be nice if you could make some temperature measurements on a warm day whilst the car runs at idle for 15 minutes to see what temperature the led housing stabilises at and if they automatically reduce brightness (current) as temperature rises? The metal housing nearest the led chips will be hottest, but shouldn't be over 80C.Then others tempted by the cheaper Chinese offerings would have something to compare against?

As you say there are plenty of imported units about now which I suspect look like those in this photo for a 35W unit with integral electronics and what looks like a decent air cooled heat sink on the back. I notice these can come in 4000K which is a better match to existing tungsten whilst attracting less attention than whiter 6-6.5K?

Unlike HIDs, what I like about these new lamps is they can be easily switched back to OE stock tungsten. I might buy something in future to bench test, but at the moment I'm not driving much.

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Looked these up. They draw 16 watts per bulb at 12 volts and 6000 degrees K . With all the proper pieces they would be a good retro fit for 07-08 Eos because of the wire braid heat sink. Most bulbs of this type seem to be lower wattage due to power/heat handling of the wire braiding. Regular LED units with heatsink/fan units don't fit inside the housing on older Eos(don't know about the newer Models). The picture of the light shown won't fit Eos projector ( low beam) unless extremely short. It may work for some models. I don't think these will generate high temps that will damage the headlight housing. NARVA H7 LED Range Power 6000K 180053000 16W 12V PX26d 2 bulbs | eBay
 

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Thanks. 16W is pretty low. I searched but haven't found their Lumens output figure yet. The lamp photo with the larger rear heatsink is 35 watts. The Fleabay listing said compatible with early EOS. I bought an led lensed mobike light quoted as 50W which only ran at 30 watts safely and continuously . But against a garage door compared to a 35W HID the light output measured with my lumens meter was surprisingly close, without all the HID complexity. As aku-aku warns, I wouldn't trust Chinese tat unless I'd tested one first. Their are too many spec. tricks they can get up to.

Throughout Europe it's a legal requirement to carry a spare lamp kit. Gets interesting if you run these?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I tend to keep a spare set of regular H7 halogen bulbs in the glove box. Since the LEDs are plug and play, you can unplug them easily enough and stick the halogens back in.

I'll try to remember to check the temperature next time I come back from a drive. One thing I remember is that someone measured the temperature of the warning canceller boxes, and they go to about 65 degrees (as compared to 200 or so for cheap Chinese resistors in metal housings).

cb391 found the right LEDs - they should be available a little cheaper than that, I paid just over 50GBP for the LEDs and 20GBP for the warning cancellers.
 

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They are only 16W which explains why their heatsink isn't huge and why they can get away with the copper braid 'heat pipes'. Interested to know how you find their brightness with real world driving at night on unlit roads? I would really like to know their lumens output and I'm little suspicious I can't find it, because it makes comparison with existing halogen and other leds a lot easier. As long as Lumens output is continuous and they don't sneakily reduce output when the lamp gets hot?

Those prices don't seem that huge for a complete kit that works. I remember paying that 10 years ago for my first single HID. Plug and Play is why I like the led solution. I had my bike HIDed for years with super great lights. Then our testers were told to start looking for addon wiring and marks on headlamps. You cannot easily swap a HID lamp back to OE due to their special high voltage wiring looms and connectors.

There's lot of talk about the EOS projectors which are low beam, but is anybody doing anything with the H7 high beams?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The best I can find for lumens output is someone claiming the identical Philips Ultinon Essential outputs 1450 lumens per unit. Driving at night on unlit roads I find the light to be brighter and more even than the halogens, and the range is better. Overall they are a significant upgrade from the halogens. I don't know whether they're the best option - there are newer generations available - but I think the changes are more about the packaging than the light source. One other big positive compared to a lot of LED light sources is the collar, being both adjustable and made of metal.

A while back, someone on here posted about some Light Moses LEDs for the high beams. I'm looking into options but haven't been able to settle on something that looks like a good option. One thing I do know is that there's much less space in the housing on the high beam side, so that will limit options. I haven't taken exact measurements but I suspect that any solution would have to use the braided heatsink design to fit. I'm skeptical as to whether the driver and warning canceller would fit in the housing, though.
 

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Under EC regulations H7 halogen bulbs must emit between 1350 to 1650 lumens at 13.2v. For USA the figure is little lower. A superbright halogen (Over run & lower life!) could be 2317 Lumen. A 55W DDM led is claimed to be 9356 but cheaper. 35W HIDs are about 3000-3200 LM and plenty bright. 35W H7Cree headlight led kits claim 3200 Lumens and on a par with HID which I would tend to agree with and think that's a realistic output claim?

Your 16W units achieving 1450LM sound about right. Some Chinese sellers are claiming 12000LM for 35W lamps which could only be achieved in the blink of an eye with circuit fakery!

So if I've understood all this, your led bulb brightness complies with the EU brightness regs, even though other things may not. A genuine 35W led headlight bulb from a reputable manufacturer should be around 3000 lumens and is on a par with 35W HID, but would be rather too bright and too large to fit? Led technology is unlikely to result in new leds twice as bright for the same safe power level so I would regard led Lumens claims over 3000 per 35W lamp as suspicious? If you get genuine Wattage and Lumens output for high power led bulbs you can make better comparisons, although thermal management still remains the issue to get right for continuous running without fakery and auto reducing lamp power.

I've played around with the control circuitry for a 35W projector led in its housing. It's surprisingly easy to hack the circuitry to reduce brightness and power whilst maintaining the same color. You can't do that with HID.
 

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Found another set of lights similar to yours. They used the Lumiled technology and claimed 2000 lumens per bulb. The Light Moses 360 seem to be liked. I haven tried them. I tried one with the same tech and didn't care for them. They only fit in the high beam housing and seemed too much light for the housing and beam pattern design. I have a 2007 Eos and the High beam housing seems to fit any LED kit. The Projector housing doesn't except for the lights with the braids. The problem is there is no clearance between the heatsink and the projector housing where the cap sits. Found a kit that might work, but I am leery to throw away $100+ that is mostly non refundable just to experiment. So for now it is HID in the projector and lumied LEDs in the high beam housing. The life expectancy is not a big issue. The high beam is only used sporadically so there is less wear and tear. The projector unit is also the DRL. There is no real alternative which mean poor life expectancy. Any performance bulb will not be long life. My only goals are lights that have more output, have the same or close to beam patterns as OEM, and cause no damage to the car. I use a separate harness for the HIDs along with resistors mounted to the metal part of the fender which works well. Changing back to OEM is no big deal and I carry a spare OEM bulb. LED bulb rating can be misleading. Information is not always accurate.
 

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I've had no any issues at all with HID life expectancy as long as you get a decent OE grade ballast with integral ignitors e.g made be Hella or Philips, which come in a water sealed ali diecast box with heat sink fins - same as OE in Mercs and BMWs. Multiple strikes haven't caused short life either and I ran the HIDs always on as low beams like you are suggesting, because they make good DRLs in daylight to be seen. Especially if you use the 6000Ks.
Lets say the HID lamp is good for 6000 hours? As long as the ballast and ignitor is good, at a constant 50 mph that's a mileage of 300K! All I noticed after 80K was a slight blueing, but still got a high matched light output from a pair of 35 watters. I'd like led in the low and high beams if and when it becomes practical for the EOS. If doing my HID mod. years ago was anything to go by, one led or HID alone will wash out the light from a tungsten lamp if it's left in the housing.

I agree the projector low beam is the most useful and used light daytime or night. Changing a HID to stock is a lot harder than changing a led and you don't have the high voltages to worry about. Heat dissipated in the housing will be the same if either are 35 watts, even less if a 16W led satisfies you. When you think they both can replace a 55W tungsten lamp, it's not the OE lamp housings or front plastic lens that's the problem (unless a cheap HID bulb is unfiltered!) but removing heat from the small chip leds is the same challenge as running a high spec. fast PC CPU.

Could somebody presently active with EOS led headlight upgrades please make some measurements for the projector and high beam lamp housings, sketching how much space is available with or without changing any lamp covers or shrouds + a photo? Measurements back from the H7 flange would probably be most useful. Am I right in thinking if they wire the back of a led unit to a connector on the cable, the space normally taken up by the lamp connector plug can be used for the led heatsink? Measuring space behing a cover isn't always easy and I would normally use a lump of kids plasticene or playdough. - Thanks.
 

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VM, do the bulbs, if they are H7, in the projector housing push in and are held in by spring pressure or does the bulb go into a holder that then is inserted an twisted into position? As far as the high beam housing, fitting pretty much any led aftermarket bulb kit with its adaptors is not a problem. All the problems are with the projector housing. Wires on the LED bulbs come out the side because of the heatsink fan, so including in the dimensions for the OEM connector and wire doesn't matter as the whole area is taken up by the heat sink/ fan assembly. There are some LED lights where the wire comes out the end. The wire in that case gets in the way of nothing. If the heat sink/fan were maybe 10mm smaller in any direction there may be no fitment issues
 

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Discussion Starter #12
They're both push in and held in by spring pressure.

Next time I'm poking about I'll try to get some measurements - that will help me decide what to do with my high beams as well.
 

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If the heat sink/fan were maybe 10mm smaller in any direction there may be no fitment issues
Just right to spin one down in a lathe and fit a water block then?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The dimensions in the high beam housing are roughly as follows: you have just over 40mm from the H7 flange to the back of the housing. The cap for the housing gives you a little more space behind that, in case you find an LED unit with a wire that sticks out of the back. The distance from the centre of the back of the bulb to the edge of the housing is very difficult to measure, but probably around 20mm - but if you angle the bulb as you insert it, you may be able to fit something bigger in. There are LEDs with heatsinks that stick out the back that would fit, for sure - but it will be tight.
 

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Is their a limit on diameter? Most of the 35 watters seem to need either a large heatsink or a fan on the back. I see most of these like yours use two groups of smd leds on opposite sides. But there is an H7 'quad' led lamp that has leds on 4 sides of a supporting structure. That should give better point light source and heat transfer back to the rear.
 

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Hi all. I have purchased the LEDs with the wire heat sink as originally mentioned but I'm struggling finding the correct clip/adapter to hold them. I've already had two wrong sets sent to me. Would anyone have a link for a set that would fit my '11 Eos please? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You shouldn't need an adapter to get the LEDs to fit. You need to make sure you buy LEDs with an H7 fitting. Here is an example of the right product (same as what I installed; Philips brand not Narva but identical). You should check that the facelift Eos takes the H7 bulbs; my pre-facelift Eos does.
 

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You shouldn't need an adapter to get the LEDs to fit. You need to make sure you buy LEDs with an H7 fitting. Here is an example of the right product (same as what I installed; Philips brand not Narva but identical). You should check that the facelift Eos takes the H7 bulbs; my pre-facelift Eos does.
That's the exact light I have and the 2011 is pre-facelift. It slides in but doesn't clip to the projector. It's just loose. Apparently, it usually needs a clip/adapter to attach it. I ordered one that fits the Jetta but no luck. Any ideas? Thanks again for the feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm not sure why you would need a clip or adapter, I didn't. You will need to rotate the collar on the LED as shown in the second picture on my earlier post, such that the LEDs emit to the sides when the bulb is inserted. The H7 fitting can be quite stiff but the bulbs go in without any need for an adapter - and it does only go in one way around.

Just to check - you do have the halogen headlamps, right? These won't fit in the xenon headlamp units.
 

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I'm not sure why you would need a clip or adapter, I didn't. You will need to rotate the collar on the LED as shown in the second picture on my earlier post, such that the LEDs emit to the sides when the bulb is inserted. The H7 fitting can be quite stiff but the bulbs go in without any need for an adapter - and it does only go in one way around.

Just to check - you do have the halogen headlamps, right? These won't fit in the xenon headlamp units.
Halogens. I'll take pics later to show what I mean. I really do appreciate your help
 
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