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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Does any one have any thoughts or opinions on Permagard. It is a reactive polymer treatment that can be applied to both new and used cars, replacing traditional wax,teflon or silicone based products. It has been developed to protect paintwork against oxidisation,discolouring,damage from bird droppings and other pollutants while providing a perfect finish that is easy to maintain.
When your car has been treated all you need to do is wash it with a ph neutral shampoo or clean water to maintain the deep gloss finish. There is no need to cut polish or wax again.
www.permagard.info. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Permagard exterior £130
interior clean & protect £76
engine clean & protect £40
glass protect £45

2nd year half price
 

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There is no chemical that will protect a car's paint from oxidation or the acids in bird droppings for the lifetime of a car. If you look at the "fine print" in the warranty of the products, they all "require" that the product be applied every year to maintain warranty. If not, they have other impossible clauses that ensure that when the paint fails due to not being maintained, that their lifetime warranty will be voided.

There are many sites on the web that talk about paint protection and there are lots of sites that provide huge mis-information in an effort to sell their products.

Here are the facts:

Modern car paints are a two stage paint, not including the metal coatings and primers that are used, you get a color layer and then a clear layer (known as a clear coat). Both are paint based. The clear layer just adds a depth of shine to the color below it.

There are really two different types of paint protection products on the market: waxes, and sealants. What is the difference?

Waxes are usually based on a naturally occurring substance like Carnuba. Carnuba comes from a plant and when applied to a car dries to a very hard surface that covers the paint like a suit of armor does for a warrior. Carnuba plants come in various levels of quality that result in much different protection from the products that use them. Brazilian is thought of as the best. Most carnuba waxes that we buy over the counter use a very low percentage of carnuba wax compared to other fillers and products that allow it to remain in a liquid or paste form. The more expensive the carnuba wax, usually, the more content you get. In general, carnuba content is between 2% and can be as high as 80% (but you pay big dollars for these).

Sealants are a totally different animal. They are man-made products that are completely manufactured chemicals. The sealant is designed to "bond" with the paint on a chemical level in order to provide protection. This process is much the same as those "last all day" sunscreen products are for people; you apply it once and then you can swim with it while it still protects you from the sun. Sealants last longer than waxes because they are designed to last longer. To extend Sealants life, there are products known as Glazes that reinforce the sealant by adding a bonding layer that sticks to the sealant.

What I find most frustrating about products like permaguard is they claim to last forever on every car. How they can make that claim is beyond me. Each car is treated differently. The car that sits in a showroom on a rotating display unit probably would last forever because the sealant used (and permaguard is just a sealant) would never be exposed to anything. However, most of our cars are exposed to acid-rain, bird droppings, road grime, and salts. These things deteriorate the chemicals and cause them to wear down. When they eventually wear off, then the unprotected paint is left to weather and fail. Most people don't even notice that their paint has oxidized and doesn't shine up like it did until it shows signs of failure.

Your best defense against paint wear is to regularly detail and maintain your car. Using proper car wash soap (instead of dish cleaner) is the first step.

Finally, no product can stop micro-scratches from happening in the surface. They have not yet invented an impermeable material that can withstand anything. If they did, it would be mixed into the paint and metal and the car would last forever.

Please don't fall for the gimmicks that claim permanent and long-lasting paint protection. If they say to apply their product once and never have to apply it again, then you are being scammed.

At best, a daily driven car that is washed and cleaned once a week will have a sealant last a year. If you drive in a place with lots of rain, snow/salt, or lots of birds like to practice on your car... then be ready for it to last far less. 3 months or more...

A wax? Don't hope for more than 2 or 3 months from it under ideal conditions; If you get one of the high quality (read that as meaning "high carnuba percentage") then maybe a little longer than that.

Finally, waxes and sealants are used to protect the paint and to create a deep and wet looking shine. Proper car washing techniques will extend the life and reduce paint damage from washes.

Check out the detailing forums HERE or also HERE if you would like more details about proper car care. Also check out these forums if you would like to read more information on waxes, sealants, or the dozens of other car care products.

These sites seem to best filter out the marketing-hype and the mis-information that floats around the web. They are real people working on real cars. Some of the before and after pictures are... well... check them out!

Cheers

Jon


EDIT: Permagard's just offering a service to people. "bring in your car once a year and we will put on a sealant". You just have to hope that once a year is enough in your area. Do it yourself and save a bunch of $$$ or find a good detailer in your area to help you out for much less.
 

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I'm doing it because I am lazy. I have read very good magazine reviews on this product and know full well that I need to get it redone each year or so...

I only use the car at weekends, so a year should be OK... They never claimed to me it was a one off treatment. I just can't be bothered with all this wax, polish and detailing! I want them to do this, then I will get it washed every couple of weeks and then wipe off dust when I need to!

I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks for the info though.
 

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..There is no chemical that will protect a car's paint from oxidation or the acids in bird droppings for the lifetime of a car....
.
Jon you are an absolute star. You always jump in with a detailed technical analysis of the issue, as an ex chemist this is much appreciated by myself. I totally agree there is no substitute for a good wash and regular application of a decent wax such as carnauba as you suggest. I normally hate washing cars but confess that with the Eos I am deriving a significant amount of pleasure on seeing the deep shine develop on the car following a good waxing and polishing. How long that pleasure will last is anyone’s guess.

On a technical point what is the difference between a ‘solid’ black paint and say the VW ‘deep black’? Is it just an extra top coat of clear layers?

Cheers, David
 

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It's a different Laquer between the Normal, Metallic and Pearl Effect as far as I am aware...

Regarding the sealing treatment, I'm doing it cos i'm lazy, not because it's magic.... I will get it washed regularly and get it reapplied yearly or more. I want the car to look nice with as little effort as possible! I just look at it as a very expensive car wash!

:)
 

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Paint Additives

There has been a new paint developed and is in limited production, based on nano technology, that has "ceramic" sub micron particles embedded in the skin layer. The ceramic nanoparticles provide a really tough lasting skin.
Supposedly Mercedes will use it on some of its 2009 line. Until then the "clay" rub really seals very well. I can lay a clean cotton towel on my hood and it slides off!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok all very interesting stuff, thanks everyone.
I bit the bullet and had my Eos done on Saturday, and all I can say is wow it looks absolutely fantastic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi sij2000.
I do intend to post pics but im really a bit of a blonde when it comes to the computer, so holding out till I can talk some male into showing me how to do it ( post pics that is, thankyou very much, esp sealy, fred and Gavin)
where are you booked in to having your permagard applied? I ask as I went to the place by city airport, made the appt Wednesday and it was done on Saturday.
Think thats an excellent idea that we keep in touch on this subject.
 

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I'm booked in middle of October.. Looking forward to it.... (Also by City Airport)

To do the pics, just make sure they are 200k or less and then click on the manage attachments link and you can upload them there! I am not good at manipulating images, so I set my camera to a resolution which makes the files about 180k! ;)

EOS is the best car I ever had by the way... Better than my Merc and all the others... It's AMAZING! I have had it a few weeks now and am still high as a kyte!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
sij2000.
Thanks for Your advice on posting pics, but you totally lost me at 200k. I'm really sorry for being such an urban armish, But hey like you I have the worlds best car so does anything else really matter. lol
 

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A real Permaguard !!!

Found this on...VW is in the act also........g'bye Permaguard
......additional published material from Automedia


Nano-Nano

Nanotechnology is already producing better materials in today's automobiles. Nano-improved paints were used on 2003 Mercedes-Benz vehicles to produce a finish that is much harder to scratch and keeps its showroom shine years longer. Mercedes Benz is using a clear nano-lacquer as the final coat. Engineers added tiny, microscopic ceramic particles to the paint that are tens of thousands times thinner than a human hair. When the car body is placed inside the paint shop ovens, the particles cross-link into a dense network. The tiny, microscopic ceramic particles enhance the scratch resistance of this clear lacquer. Using tests that simulate 100 regular car washes, where microscopic dirt adds tiny scratches to regular paint jobs, the nano-improved paint held its shine while regular paint began to dull. Gloss gauges showed regular paint at only 35 percent while the nano paint rated 72 percent on the gloss scale.

Magic Paint

Stefan Langenfeld, a nanotechnology specialist at Volkswagen says the automaker is working on paints that are too slippery to allow dirt to stick to their surface. Further down the pipeline is a "self healing" paint that could repair its own scratches. Even farther down the line is a paint that can change its color. Say you buy a blue car but feel like driving a red one, this paint could accomplish that chameleon switch. Langenfeld says VW is pursuing nanotechnology because it offers improvements in safety, fuel consumption and customer convenience.

Volkswagen is also exploring nanotechnology to develop auto glass which can be switched on to filter out heat and eliminate the "oven-effect" when a car is parked in the summer sun. Under the hood, the automaker is also developing nano materials that will cut down on friction in engine parts cutting oil use and extending the life of the engine. VW's on the road already carry nanotech in anti-reflective coatings on the dashboard and instrument panel of the vehicles to reduce glare. The automaker's rear view mirrors use nanotech materials to automatically darken when closing vehicles' headlights hit the mirrors.
 

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Found this on...VW is in the act also........g'bye Permaguard
......additional published material from Automedia



Magic Paint

Stefan Langenfeld, a nanotechnology specialist at Volkswagen says the automaker is working on paints that are too slippery to allow dirt to stick to their surface. Further down the pipeline is a "self healing" paint that could repair its own scratches. Even farther down the line is a paint that can change its color. Say you buy a blue car but feel like driving a red one, this paint could accomplish that chameleon switch. Langenfeld says VW is pursuing nanotechnology because it offers improvements in safety, fuel consumption and customer convenience.

Volkswagen is also exploring nanotechnology to develop auto glass which can be switched on to filter out heat and eliminate the "oven-effect" when a car is parked in the summer sun. Under the hood, the automaker is also developing nano materials that will cut down on friction in engine parts cutting oil use and extending the life of the engine. VW's on the road already carry nanotech in anti-reflective coatings on the dashboard and instrument panel of the vehicles to reduce glare. The automaker's rear view mirrors use nanotech materials to automatically darken when closing vehicles' headlights hit the mirrors.
Sounds like a lot of (to use a computing term) vapour ware to me. No substance whatsoever.

Looking at some of the oil posts here whats the point of a long life oil if people are still ging to change it as often as they used to do in the olden days.
 

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Simon, did you get your car done.
How does it look?
Did anyone say at the last meet up how shiny it was.
Does it get rid of those very fine scratches that only seem to show up in sunlight.
Jamcar, is your permagard eos still looking good
So many questions but would like to know as I'm rather a lazy blighter when it comes to cleaning cars, (especially in the winter when its cold out there)
Cheers, David
 
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