[voxmagna]

There have been some recent threads about this problem which is a pain in the butt. The shop manual refers to re-adaptation but says nothing more. The EOS owners glovebox manual quotes a procedure which may not work.

MY07 has had its roof disconnected from power for a while. The sunroof operation is linked to and passes through the roof controller. I had no luck getting the sunroof motor to do anything with the roof controller disconnected. The sunroof motor (with integral controller) is a 3 wire device. Power, Ground and Data. The data line carries digital data control words and isn't simple logic level voltage control. Normally, the sunroof switch operation allows you to stop & start the sunroof at any position. When the main roof is controlling the sunroof it operates in a '1 touch' mode where a control signal says 'open' and it doesn't stop until it reaches the fully back position before roof opening starts. When the auto roof sends the sunroof control 'close' signal, the motor keeps running until the sunroof is fully closed.

The problem with swapping motors or disconnecting power is the sunroof motor has pre-programmed (learned) positions corresponding to motor revolutions count. The reference starting point is the sunroof fully closed position. Once the motor is disconnected and the sunroof is moved, the position values stored in memory are wrong. Pinch protection still works but this may cause the sunroof to close then run backwards to part open. Dealers may have their own diagnostics software that can guide them through the re-adaption and learning process without removing any parts. VCDS cannot do this. Here is my DIY method I have tried several times that works:

1. Connect the roof controller.
2. Remove the headlining starting at the front corners and let it hang down at the rear to expose the ABS tray cover over the sunroof motor towards the back.
3. Remove the tray fixing screws and slide the tray forwards and out. Note: One central screw near the sunroof motor has a 1mm shim fitted - Don't lose it!
4. The sunroof motor can be manually moved using a hex key. WARNING after I used a hex key 3 times, the soft metal starts to flatten off. I now have to use a 12 point torx!
5. Manually move the sunroof back to about half open, then remove the 3 motor fixing torx screws and let it hang on the loom wiring with the gear facing you.
6. Ignition on and operate the sunroof switch up and down. The motor should spin in both directions and stop or even stop in 2 positions. THIS CONFIRMS THE MOTOR STILL HAS OLD STORED DATA. If you replaced the motor the sunroof would move an amount then stop, but not fully close or open.
7. Pull up the sunroof switch and the gear should rotate clockwise (closing). If the motor stops, keep holding the switch up for about 20 seconds. Repeat until the motor gear turns clockwise AND DOESN'T STOP ON IT'S OWN.
8. In this state the motor is looking for the fully closed stall point to set its zero calibration.
9. Replace the motor with the sunroof still half open then pull up and hold the switch.
10. The sunroof should motor to the fully closed position and stop where it has now learned the reference point.
11. Push the sunroof switch down and the motor should complete a full open operation and stop. Repeat to close the sunroof.
12. The sunroof motor and controller is now calibrated and you can replace the tray and headlining.
13. I already had parts removed and I haven't tried this yet with everything in place? The procedure is the same - open the roof half way or part open manually, then lift up and hold the switch for 20 seconds but the problem may be the motor has to complete X revolutions without stopping or it shouldn't detect any friction load and I don't know if there's sufficient run back left to do that?

I've attached a couple of motor photos for anybody wanting to source parts.

 

[Sjoerd]

Hi Voxmagna,

I’m new here, trying to recalibrate my sunroof. I followed al the steps, the sunroof is working with the sunroof switch. When trying to open the roof the sunroof opens further, then runs info the pinch protection, at the point it should stop and comes back a couple of cm’s stopping the roof opening process. How can I reset/calibrate the roof controller to get the right endpoint of the sunroof? At point 11 what position do you mean with full open, the full open to open the roof (my sunroof stops at the sunroof open position)?

 

[voxmagna]

The sunroof uses the fully closed position when the motor stalls to set its reference start point. The 'end points' for nearly fully open (no roof operation) and fully open further back for roof operation are worked out digitally.

My note assumes you have the motor removed when you operate the switch. You are cutting corners if you are skipping steps. I close the sunroof manually then look at what the motor shaft is doing when it's removed. Removing the power plug from the controller for 20 minutes and replacing it sometimes helps. When you see the motor shaft turning without stopping it has no stored value and is waiting for pinch to re-learn the start point. You replace the motor with the sunroof in the fully closed position, operate the switch for fully closed and it should learn the new position.

The windows up/down calibration procedure using the key in the door lock also includes the sunroof. I found it doesn't always work (?) but worth trying as well.

NB: If your sunroof mechanism is jamming and you cannot close it manually without a huge effort on the key, you may not have a re-calibration problem. Pinch protection is operating because there's too much friction.

 

[djandyjk77]

Hi i replaced the cog on mine but now when i close the roof it closes all the way then sunroof opens back up half way si i then have to close via sunroof switch by pressing till it closes in stages

There have been some recent threads about this problem which is a pain in the butt. The shop manual refers to re-adaptation but says nothing more. The EOS owners glovebox manual quotes a procedure which may not work.

MY07 has had its roof disconnected from power for a while. The sunroof operation is linked to and passes through the roof controller. I had no luck getting the sunroof motor to do anything with the roof controller disconnected. The sunroof motor (with integral controller) is a 3 wire device. Power, Ground and Data. The data line carries digital data control words and isn't simple logic level voltage control. Normally, the sunroof switch operation allows you to stop & start the sunroof at any position. When the main roof is controlling the sunroof it operates in a '1 touch' mode where a control signal says 'open' and it doesn't stop until it reaches the fully back position before roof opening starts. When the auto roof sends the sunroof control 'close' signal, the motor keeps running until the sunroof is fully closed.

The problem with swapping motors or disconnecting power is the sunroof motor has pre-programmed (learned) positions corresponding to motor revolutions count. The reference starting point is the sunroof fully closed position. Once the motor is disconnected and the sunroof is moved, the position values stored in memory are wrong. Pinch protection still works but this may cause the sunroof to close then run backwards to part open. Dealers may have their own diagnostics software that can guide them through the re-adaption and learning process without removing any parts. VCDS cannot do this. Here is my DIY method I have tried several times that works:

1. Connect the roof controller.
2. Remove the headlining starting at the front corners and let it hang down at the rear to expose the ABS tray cover over the sunroof motor towards the back.
3. Remove the tray fixing screws and slide the tray forwards and out. Note: One central screw near the sunroof motor has a 1mm shim fitted - Don't lose it!
4. The sunroof motor can be manually moved using a hex key. WARNING after I used a hex key 3 times, the soft metal starts to flatten off. I now have to use a 12 point torx!
5. Manually move the sunroof back to about half open, then remove the 3 motor fixing torx screws and let it hang on the loom wiring with the gear facing you.
6. Ignition on and operate the sunroof switch up and down. The motor should spin in both directions and stop or even stop in 2 positions. THIS CONFIRMS THE MOTOR STILL HAS OLD STORED DATA. If you replaced the motor the sunroof would move an amount then stop, but not fully close or open.
7. Pull up the sunroof switch and the gear should rotate clockwise (closing). If the motor stops, keep holding the switch up for about 20 seconds. Repeat until the motor gear turns clockwise AND DOESN'T STOP ON IT'S OWN.
8. In this state the motor is looking for the fully closed stall point to set its zero calibration.
9. Replace the motor with the sunroof still half open then pull up and hold the switch.
10. The sunroof should motor to the fully closed position and stop where it has now learned the reference point.
11. Push the sunroof switch down and the motor should complete a full open operation and stop. Repeat to close the sunroof.
12. The sunroof motor and controller is now calibrated and you can replace the tray and headlining.
13. I already had parts removed and I haven't tried this yet with everything in place? The procedure is the same - open the roof half way or part open manually, then lift up and hold the switch for 20 seconds but the problem may be the motor has to complete X revolutions without stopping or it shouldn't detect any friction load and I don't know if there's sufficient run back left to do that?

I've attached a couple of motor photos for anybody wanting to source parts.

 

[djandyjk77]

i did what you said and the motor moved both directions and stopped so assuming the data was still stored ive recently changed battery as it hadn’t run for about a month or 2

 

[voxmagna]

That only proves the motor, not the rest of the mechanism. When you replace the motor cog with a substitute, most sellers give a health warning that the replacement can break. The reason is not the cog but the mechanism, or the octopus Bowden cables are still jamming causing the motor to stop short and cut out/wind back on its pinch protection overload. You can then never properly 'calibrate' the controller, because the sunroof cannot be moved between its full end to end stops and stored data will be updated and wrong.

You have to confirm manually that the sunroof can be moved from its fully closed position to its extended open position without excessive friction. I wrote my calibration procedure for a good motor and working sunroof which didn't jam or lock up along its travel. Many have the nylon cog break and don't realise it's failure is a consequence of a bad or seized mechanism and not the cog itself. You should make sure the cable spirals are greased along their full turning length and the roof is free to slide. But it can't be moved manually unless you use a key in the motor shaft. Any out of true on the roof top side members can cause the rectangle to become a parallelogram!

If you want further proof, measure the sunroof motor current then open/close the sunroof. At the point where it jams, seizes or stops short there will be an abnormal motor current peak. Keep trying and you risk breaking the new cog.

 

[djandyjk77]

That only proves the motor, not the rest of the mechanism. When you replace the motor cog with a substitute, most sellers give a health warning that the replacement can break. The reason is not the cog but the mechanism, or the octopus Bowden cables are still jamming causing the motor to stop short and cut out/wind back on its pinch protection overload. You can then never properly 'calibrate' the controller, because the sunroof cannot be moved between its full end to end stops and stored data will be updated and wrong.

You have to confirm manually that the sunroof can be moved from its fully closed position to its extended open position without excessive friction. I wrote my calibration procedure for a good motor and working sunroof which didn't jam or lock up along its travel. Many have the nylon cog break and don't realise it's failure is a consequence of a bad or seized mechanism and not the cog itself. You should make sure the cable spirals are greased along their full turning length and the roof is free to slide. But it can't be moved manually unless you use a key in the motor shaft. Any out of true on the roof top side members can cause the rectangle to become a parallelogram!

If you want further proof, measure the sunroof motor current then open/close the sunroof. At the point where it jams, seizes or stops short there will be an abnormal motor current peak. Keep trying and you risk breaking the new cog.

so to prevent further breakage i’m best trying to manually open sunroof as you say and make sure no friction
everything seems to work ok roof etc it’s just the closing sequence that seems to be iffy when i close with sunroof switch it shuts up if i press too long it will open again

 

[voxmagna]

Yes because 'iffy' doesn't work when electronic over current motor protection is predictable and fast. The largest motor current draw usually occurs at the final closing stage when the wind deflector is closed and the glass is pulled down into the seals. If the channel misalignment is trapezoidal, friction may increase moving towards the front or moving towards the rear. If you are very lucky you may solve your problems with lubrication and testing the friction. But many with your problem find the Octopus cable is damaged somewhere along its length where the glass will repeatedly stop at the same point. But as I said, excessive friction will screw up any attempt to do the 'calibration' and you don't know what's coming first - pinch protection, or the controller has learned the wrong end points.

Pinch protection for the sunroof and windows works by stopping movement then reversing the direction. If a finger was trapped, that's how you get it out! Wrong data in memory would just cause the sunroof to stop and not retract. That's how you know your problem is too much friction at the closing stage which then triggers pinch protection. Lack of lubrication on the rails, seals or misaligned tracks will cause the friction to change as the sunroof moves. There will be a certain level of moving friction which should be as low as possible and then peaks at the closing pull down into nicely lubricated seals. Carefully measuring the motor current as the sunroof moves its full distance is very revealing.

You need to be careful operating the roof if the sunroof isn't opening and closing correctly between its limits. The sunroof has no position sensors and if pinch protection caused by seizure isn't picked up by the roof controller during roof open and aborts before the top segments start moving, you might do some damage?

One thing I haven't mentioned is the possibility of a 'Jumped coil' on one Bowden cable. These have to be turned and pulled in sync to keep the glass and frame running square between the guides. If a coil 'tooth' has jumped on one side, then the sunroof will move trapezoidal with increasing friction peaking at the fully closed point. Dimensional tolerances are probably <1mm and such a large glass area will soon run out of true if the spiral teeth at the sides are out of sync.

 

[djandyjk77]

wow that’s an amazing amount of input you know your stuff thankyou i will read manual and see how to manually move it i’ve only just put the bloody lining up as was waiting for new push clips to come as the others broke

 

[djandyjk77]

we

wow that’s an amazing amount of input you know your stuff thankyou i will read manual and see how to manually move it i’ve only just put the bloody lining up as was waiting for new push clips to come as the others broke

it is like pinch protection is working on the final close. sequence when sunroof closes it opens again and i can only close by the other sunroof switch by holding it so somethings not right no codes in vcds either by the way

 

[voxmagna]

I've shared what I know as far as I can and it's up to you now to search here, dig deeper with a service manual and reach a conclusion, or for others to contribute more to this thread. You don't get fault codes when pinch protection operates. Some serious faults put up a dash warning 'Take to Workshop' but this one could be 'Finger trapped, take to doctor'. You will need to dig a lot deeper and take more off than the lining if you need to investigate the rails and Octopus cables.

AFIK when a dealer workshop gets a broken nylon motor gear, they check the squarness of the guide track is within spec. using their service tool before and after work. They replace both the sunroof motor and Octopus cable assembly, no messing about because they warranty their work afterwards. A lot of parts have to come off and there are detailed instructions to get them back. Ignore what V.W say and you risk sunroof seal leaks afterwards or another broken nylon gear.

 

[djandyjk77]

Thanks for input 👍

 

[mircoooo98]

There have been some recent threads about this problem which is a pain in the butt. The shop manual refers to re-adaptation but says nothing more. The EOS owners glovebox manual quotes a procedure which may not work.

MY07 has had its roof disconnected from power for a while. The sunroof operation is linked to and passes through the roof controller. I had no luck getting the sunroof motor to do anything with the roof controller disconnected. The sunroof motor (with integral controller) is a 3 wire device. Power, Ground and Data. The data line carries digital data control words and isn't simple logic level voltage control. Normally, the sunroof switch operation allows you to stop & start the sunroof at any position. When the main roof is controlling the sunroof it operates in a '1 touch' mode where a control signal says 'open' and it doesn't stop until it reaches the fully back position before roof opening starts. When the auto roof sends the sunroof control 'close' signal, the motor keeps running until the sunroof is fully closed.

The problem with swapping motors or disconnecting power is the sunroof motor has pre-programmed (learned) positions corresponding to motor revolutions count. The reference starting point is the sunroof fully closed position. Once the motor is disconnected and the sunroof is moved, the position values stored in memory are wrong. Pinch protection still works but this may cause the sunroof to close then run backwards to part open. Dealers may have their own diagnostics software that can guide them through the re-adaption and learning process without removing any parts. VCDS cannot do this. Here is my DIY method I have tried several times that works:

1. Connect the roof controller.
2. Remove the headlining starting at the front corners and let it hang down at the rear to expose the ABS tray cover over the sunroof motor towards the back.
3. Remove the tray fixing screws and slide the tray forwards and out. Note: One central screw near the sunroof motor has a 1mm shim fitted - Don't lose it!
4. The sunroof motor can be manually moved using a hex key. WARNING after I used a hex key 3 times, the soft metal starts to flatten off. I now have to use a 12 point torx!
5. Manually move the sunroof back to about half open, then remove the 3 motor fixing torx screws and let it hang on the loom wiring with the gear facing you.
6. Ignition on and operate the sunroof switch up and down. The motor should spin in both directions and stop or even stop in 2 positions. THIS CONFIRMS THE MOTOR STILL HAS OLD STORED DATA. If you replaced the motor the sunroof would move an amount then stop, but not fully close or open.
7. Tirare verso l'alto l'interruttore del tetto apribile e l'ingranaggio dovrebbe ruotare in senso orario (chiudendosi). Se il motore si ferma, continuare a tenere premuto l'interruttore per circa 20 secondi. Ripetere fino a quando l'ingranaggio del motore gira in senso orario E NON SI FERMA DA SOLO.
8. In questo stato il motore cerca il punto di stallo completamente chiuso per impostare la sua calibrazione zero.
9. Sostituire il motorino con il tetto apribile ancora semiaperto, quindi tirare verso l'alto e tenere premuto l'interruttore.
10. Il tetto apribile dovrebbe motorizzare fino alla posizione completamente chiusa e fermarsi dove ha ora acquisito il punto di riferimento.
11. Abbassare l'interruttore del tetto apribile e il motore dovrebbe completare un'operazione di apertura completa e arrestarsi. Ripetere per chiudere il tetto apribile.
12. Il motore e il controller del tetto apribile sono ora calibrati ed è possibile sostituire il vassoio e il rivestimento del padiglione.
13. Ho già rimosso delle parti e non l'ho ancora provato con tutto a posto? La procedura è la stessa: apri il tetto a metà o parzialmente aperto manualmente, quindi solleva e tieni premuto l'interruttore per 20 secondi, ma il problema potrebbe essere che il motore deve completare X giri senza fermarsi o non dovrebbe rilevare alcun carico di attrito e Non so se è rimasto abbastanza tempo per farlo?

Ho allegato un paio di foto del motore per chiunque desideri reperire parti.
[/CITAZIONE]
Ciao ho dovuto sostituire l'ingranaggio in plastica del motorino perché si era rotto ... Ho seguito tutti i tuoi passi,il panoramico funzionava ma la capote completa no... Ho provato a ripete l'operazione ma il panoramico non si é fermato quando era chiuso e ha continuato a fare girare il motorino rompendomi anche l'ingranaggio nuovo... Sai dirmi come posso fare? Grazie

 

[voxmagna]

I don't understand post #13 but I'll guess to add some useful information:
Many times EOS members have reported a broken sunroof motor gear (cog) and think just replacing it fixes their problem? Ebay sellers do not guarantee them if they break again, but why because MY07 nylon gear is still original?

When dealers get a faulty sunroof motor (gear?) they replace the motor and the Octopus drive cables and charge a lot but why, since replacing the cables is a huge time consuming job. Well, why did the nylon motor gear fail anyway? Yes they are nylon and can break, but IMHO if there are no faults they do not fail. The problem has at least 2 possibilities. spiral cables and their worm gears on the sliders must keep perfect parallel sync. i.e If one block moves forwards the opposite block must move the same amount AND keep the sunroof frame running parallel in the sliders along the whole distance of movement. If one section of the spiral (you can't see) is damaged by even a turn, the glass carrier runs out of true on the guides increasing the resistance. Lubricating the sliders is always a good idea, but isn't a fix for this fault. That's why V.W dealers who guarantee the work (unlike DIYers) are smart and replace both motor and cables together.

The sunroof like other windows has 'Pinch protection'. This means if the motor is overloaded, the motor controller monitors its current draw, stops the motor and reverses it. But since a lot of force is needed to move the sunroof, pinch protection doesn't protect the nylon motor gear if the overload caused by high friction happens often.

When testing the motor as I described, I used a good motor,gear, Octopus cables and lubed sliders. I was calibrating the sunroof, not repairing a fault! When the sunroof motor is being tested to calibrate the end stops, it has to run the spindle to the physical stop clockwise and anti-clockwise until pinch protection acivates to set the reference point. If the motor controller is faulty and there's no pinch protection I WOULD EXPECT A NEW NYLON GEAR TO GET CRUNCHED! I can't confirm this, but a diagnostic scan before changing the gear might inform a bad controller if pinch protection had failed?

To conclude, if you see a crunched motor gear, suspect either the motor controller pinch protection isn't working and/or there is too much friction in the mechanism (cables and sliders) and check this before putting in a new gear and testing the motor. It is also important the aftermarket gear has the same diameter and teeth numbers as the OE.