Volkswagen Eos Forum banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just recently I've been pulling apart wifey's EOS - the usual stuff - cam belt, brake pads. service, diags,repair rear screen heater, Crytox etc.

When the car front was raised on ramps at the rear about 12 degrees we had some rain. Next morning I opened the doors and my feet got washed with an enormous amount of water pouring from the bottom front section of the door seal. Now I put this down to the unusual angle of the car but was still surprised at how the water had got trapped and why it hadn't run away.

When the car was off the ramps and back on the driveway which has a slight slope (higher at front), I had the roof open a few times all was dry and clean with no water inside the cabin.

Then after some rain and dry weather whilst still parked, I had the roof part open and found these two deep fish tanks just behind the rear seat belt anchors, into which the roof hinges drop.

One side had over a liter of water in it, the other side less. Now those body cavities had been really well sealed and so well my goldfish would have been happy in there for days!

My question for any roof leak experts is how does water get in there and if it does how does it get out? I can see a future of rusting bodywork and permanently misted up windows and would never have thought to look for trapped water in those locations, since you can't see in there with the roof fully up or down.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Well, good questions. What you refer to as "fish tanks" is usually referred to as "swimming pools". I believe the MY 2011 (facelifted) EOS actually has a drainage valve to empty the pools (can anyone check that?), but the previous models never had it fitted. Sp the best way to empty them is with a sponge or similar. Now, how does the water get in there? Very good question. It may be getting in where the chrome strip of the trunk meets the chrome strip of the rear side window. It may be that the water that is going between the chrome strip and the trunk is not able to exit to the outside and is overflowing to the inside. It may be water flowing in through the seal of the rear segment to the rear side window. It could also be that there is water flowing in through the "Bermuda triangle" (rear glass, rear closing segment and middle (top) segment). Check the spare wheel well for water also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks, your reply is more than I expected since most probably don't even know they are there unless they are doing their own Krytox roof service.

I didn't say that our 2007 EOS had a big warranty roof seal service done just over a year ago and we have never found any water inside the cabin or trunk since then and I go over the carpets and trunk fairly often with a multimeter set to high ohms.

But these 'swimming pools' are bugging me because they can be responsible for a lot of internal condensation and with the amount of water I saw in them, could never be drained. It must be time to start thinking about putting a cheap throwaway camera in there to see where the water is getting in.

I will go through all your suggestions but am interested to know about this 'drainage valve ' if it exists - any chance of a photo from anybody? There is a rubber grommet in the bottom, but at first look it seemed as if the floor of the swimming pool was part of the interior bodywork.

I also spotted a bead of clear silicone around the bottom edges. Certainly my pools could stay full for days. This doesn't look like the normal VW factory sealant and hadn't been oversprayed so I suspect somebody has been there after the car was made.

I'll let you know if I find out anything positive after going through your suggestions, but please be patient because I have problems understanding descriptions for the body parts.

PS Perhaps I need to install a pair of water pumps with CAN controllers to get a warning on the dash and show me each time the ignition is on that there is no water in there!

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
I have a 2007 Eos and mine has one drain hole on each side in about the center, photo attached.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Randy, Is this it?

Mine is a 2007 TDi Sport.

Thanks

OK, I've now gone and had a really close look.

I have a hole in each floor section of my fish tanks center away from the sound deadening panel and towards the trunk. In my case both holes are about 3/8" and covered with a circular piece of Sellotape to seal them. In this location they are about 3 inches above the lowest point right up front when the car is level - so they won't drain much.

I poked my fishing line down there and there's an enormous cavity behind the holes.

I don't think VAG would use a plain drilled hole for drainage, it would just rust away. They usually have some kind of rubber insert to protect the steel from corrosion, and a rubber tube.

I think these holes being high up in level are where they can feed in a corrosion inhibitor.

The more I think about this, the more concerned I get. I haven't read any feedback on roof leaks which mention the attitude of the car and I'm starting to wonder if the car is parked on anything other than level ground when it rains, or being driven, the drainage may not work. Of course, the owner takes the car in for a hosepipe roof leak investigation on a flat level floor and the leaks don't appear.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
Randy, Is this it?
Yes, but I see your point that this hole is not at the low point and agree it may not even for purpose of draining water. I poured in 1 cup of water and it came no where close to the hole to drain any of it. It all just sat at the low spot in the front of the top stowage compartment until I soaked it up with a towel.

I theorize that if Eos is parked outside in an extended hard rain some water gets into that cavity. My Eos has those front seams very well sealed so the water does not drain out the front of the cavity it just sits. I bet some Eos has a front seam that is not watertight and some water gets into the passenger compartment causing the "wet rear carpet" condition many have posted about. I would think if this seam is not water tight that would be a defect that VW would cover under warranty.

I also theorize that if water is in there and does not leak into the passenger compartment, when drives forward from a stop the water moves back and runs into the trunk, causing the "wet trunk carpet" and or "water in the spare tire well" condtion many have posted about.

Can someone with a newer '10 or '11 Eos look and see if the newest ones have drains in the front of the top stowage compartments? That would give any water that got in there a place to go instead of the passenger compartment or the trunk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
OK I think we are singing the same tune. That cavity already has a downwards slope as you found and once water gets in there, it won't get out except by evaporation. If the car is parked on a downslope after heavy rains then water could enter the rear cabin, if it is parked on a steep upslope, it will enter the trunk.

The first solution must be to stop water getting in in the first place and locate the weak point in sealing or whether there is a drain somewhere, but it is not large enough. I am confident so soon after my EOS roof re-build and later checks that there are no obvious blockages.

The second issue is to assume that some small volume of water might enter that cavity and work out how to get rid of it. My EOS is parked outside 24/7 and I don't really want to start wringing out sponges after heavy rain. I've recently found several uses for these small electronic rape alarms and I shall be dropping a couple in there, modified to work as water sensors.

I haven't yet studied that body section closely, but it doesn't seem as simple as drilling a hole and may need a hole and drainage pipe installed to get water down and out behind the cill.

I think it should be fairly easy to remove the interior trim (I'm getting good at that now!) from around the rear seat belt anchors, sit inside with the roof up and watch what water gets in with an assistant hosing over the known areas of possible seal leaks.

As a further consequence to this I have spent a lot of time repairing the rear window heater tracks. This is a real pain to do carefully and the silver conductive paint is very visible. I found that I could locate and repair one break, then 24 hours later when tested the same line would open somewhere else.

Compared to my 15 year old Renault car with a perfect rear screen heater, VW have gone for finer printed tracks and more of them. The Renault uses fewer but wider and stronger tracks and they have survived 15 years!

Condensation inside the EOS cabin long term is a disaster for the printed copper rear heated screen - because that's where it ends up. Even though the lines have a protective coating, corrosion can occur and shorten its life. I was told by a windshield company that the rear heated screen for an EOS could cost around £1000! With Winter approaching I have just bought one of these small ceramic 12V fan heaters for backup. I need to attack it and build in a 5 minute switch off timer, but with a custom bracket it could be pushed down the trim join on top of the center rear seat and plugged into the rear accessory socket.

I'll post what I find after some more inspection and testing. But when I can a) see very little water in those cavities after aggressive hosepipe testing AND b) pour in a liter of water and watch it drain on to my feet, I'll know it is fixed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Hi

I have had water in my Eos a couple of times. (see my posts) With reference to your particular issue of water in the body section where the hood folds down I found mine was the same but it had also gone under the rear carpets. The right hand rear drain tube was blocked which causes the water to overflow at the back of the drain channel in the roof which then runs down the struts which eventually ends up where your pools are. The easiest way to check the drain tubes is to get someone to water the roof with a hosepipe while you look under the car and see if water is dripping through. It should drip about 10 - 15cm to the inside of the rear tires causing a small puddle.
Best of luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Digiman5050,

Does anybody know if there is a diagram, hand drawn or otherwise or with photos that maps out the complete EOS seal and drainage system?

I have problems following some of the descriptions for seals, roof parts and locations.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
http://www.wagenstad.com/index.php?model=eos

Hi,
not sure what info you've already got but this might help a bit. If you look under "EOS >Body>Convertible top" it gives a few clues but nothing brilliant.

Regards,
John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks John, scrolling through those pages is a lot easier than my 'offline source'.

Isn't it amazing how a diagram can look nothing like the real thing when it is put together!

I'm now off searching for drains, pipes and 'valves' whatever that is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,488 Posts
Check your rear drains (which run from the rear roof seal where the rear window meets the rear roof segment... There is a drain tube on each side...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Checked those, poured water in from a jug and it comes out both drains at the bottom.

I did find where they had joined two seals near the rear drains that they hadn't used much sealer. I don't think this was the issue, but I've done a better job anyway.

As I probe about I learn more. So far:

I think the drainage system around the center of the roof and the front drains are only needed if the seal contact between the roof glasses and seals is poor. The drain holes are pretty small and will not take a high volume of water before flooding over.

If I am right, then no water should be coming from those drains and down the door posts by the mirrors, or the tubes in the A-pillars, if the roof seals are ok. If you think about it, it would be a crass design to have water pouring off and rely on an 'internal' drain. With water, you should keep it sealed outside first and only use an internal drain to cope with a faulty seal and small leak. I suspect most people doing hosepipe tests are looking for water entering the cabin - but I'd first make sure it wasn't coming out the front drains first. Hell, stick some tissue in there, hose over, dry the roof, open and see if it's wet.

It's the rear drainage system that worries me most. That drain channel between the trunk lid and the rear glass just past the silver trim, takes most of the water running off the roof and pretty well all of it if the EOS is parked on an up gradient. If it is parked both on an up gradient AND a left or right camber there could be bad Karma in heavy rain, as all the roof water tries to escape from the left or right rear drain. Whilst the channel is quite wide and deep, water ends up squeezing its way through the narrower rubber seal channel at either end, then out between the trunk lid seal and the trunk lid. Even a channel that deep could flood over in Monsoon rains!

That's where the highest water volume flow will be. If water paths at each side are restricted or blocked, then water could spill over past the trunk lid seal into the trunk. Do people in Asia buy the EOS?

I need to get the car rear end back up on ramps to find all the drain exit points. Two are elusive and they seem to be using the cill cavities from what I can see of how water drips out. That surprises me as they start with a rubber channel or hose and you would have expected them to have continued down with a hose and not just pour water into a body cavity with a hole in the bottom. I would feel happier if I could run some hose through the body cavities at least 10-12 mm ID and larger than their wimpy drain drillings. I think that explains how you can park the car on a steep slope, then have water slosh out when it moves or gets level. That stinks and I hope they have some decent anti-rust treatment or galvanizing on their body panels.

OK, so I think I've learned that the EOS roof drainage design may not work so well when the car is parked at steep angles and on sloping road cambers. Which is where I came in with full 'fish tanks' - But I'm still investigating. It does suggest that those with leaking roof problems should consider the angle of the car when it is parked in heavy rain which helps home in on which side seals and drains, front and rear, need looking at.

I've never owned a car before that is designed to stay dry when it is mainly horizontal. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
In my first year (2008) of Eos ownership, before I made room in the garage, I used to park it outside on the level. On a couple of occasions, as I came to a stop at the end of the road, I could here water sloshing about. I now realise, thanks to Voxmagna, that it must have been water in the fishtanks. I did get water in the spare wheel well too.

Since then I've done made regular use of Krytox and that in combination with parking in the garage has meant I've never had anymore problems. I'm following this thread with interest though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
That water sloshing 'sounds like you are at sea' noises, could also be water trapped in the hollow cill sections below the doors, with no 'convenient' drain hole.

When I had the car on ramps during one day of wet weather, which was admittedly a 10-11 degree angle, I also got liters of water trapped somewhere by the closed doors at the front, because when I opened the door next day, I was greeted by an avalanche of water.

Where the roof locks into the front screen top member they go to the trouble of running a nice size pipe down either side of each A-pillar behind the trim. That's one of those places where I said I don't think you should get much draining. But what I don't know is whether that pipe carries on down all the way to beyond the hollow cill, or they just dump the water in the cill and hope it gets through one of the holes - and there are not that many. I had a quick look under the body and I don't remember seeing short 2" lengths of drain tube dotted about.

Two of those holes just behind the rear wheel were so small and partially covered by some rubber trim, that I could hardly see them. I took a photo but without a highlight edit you would be pushed to see them. To me, a proper drain should be at least a 10mm diameter hose. The fact that others report drains blocked tells me they could be driving their EOS off road, or more likely the drain holes are not large enough or in the wrong place picking up mud, or Silver Birch seeds have filled up the topside channels and holes.

You cannot just go around punching larger holes in the hollow cills without thinking, because that will let as much water in as is trying to get out. To do it properly, a cill drainage hole should have a panel grommet with a tight fitting hose.

I'm going to check over this lot and try to get some sorting done before the Winter rains arrive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Regarding that channel between the trunk and the chrome strip, you may notice that newer (MY2009 onwards ?) cars have a rubber profile closing it. It goes a long way reducing the amount of water that the system must handle, and should be a straight fit in an old car. Worth trying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
My 07' EOS Tdi never had any problem with water income, or water inside those areas...nothing!!! On those areas that you call "swimming pools", i only have dust...nothing more nothing less. I think I've got a fortunate unit!!!;-)

Bottom line...i still love my EOS as i loved him on the first day!!! It will be hard to change car......

Regards...
JC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Regarding that channel between the trunk and the chrome strip, you may notice that newer (MY2009 onwards ?) cars have a rubber profile closing it. It goes a long way reducing the amount of water that the system must handle, and should be a straight fit in an old car. Worth trying.
Thanks. My 2007 had a lot of warranty work done on it before I bought it. I'd like some more info on that 'rubber profile' - just to make sure mine doesn't have it.

Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Does it look like an easy retrofit addon, or is it a shape change to the original seal molding, requiring the whole lot to be replaced?

JC_EOS - There are several variables that determine how and when water might get inside those compartments or the car itself. If you have never left your car parked uphill in a heavy thunderstorm when the trunk lid drain can get overloaded, you might never find out. If that heavy rain was followed by sun and hot weather then trapped water could evaporate. - but one day if it happens you may be glad of what you read in this discussion thread.

After a couple of days leaving your car uphill in heavy rain, raise the top and see if you have any water inside those compartments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Thanks. My 2007 had a lot of warranty work done on it before I bought it. I'd like some more info on that 'rubber profile' - just to make sure mine doesn't have it.

Can you post a photo showing what it looks like? Does it look like an easy retrofit addon, or is it a shape change to the original seal molding, requiring the whole lot to be replaced?

JC_EOS - There are several variables that determine how and when water might get inside those compartments or the car itself. If you have never left your car parked uphill in a heavy thunderstorm when the trunk lid drain can get overloaded, you might never find out. If that heavy rain was followed by sun and hot weather then trapped water could evaporate. - but one day if it happens you may be glad of what you read in this discussion thread.

After a couple of days leaving your car uphill in heavy rain, raise the top and see if you have any water inside those compartments.
I did that already...heavy rains, thunderstoms...rain with wind from aside...and nothing...not even a rain drop! The only "problem" that My EOS have is the water that leaves out the car when we open a door after a heavy rain...but, in my opinnion, that is no big deal...If i want i know how to solve that issue...but since i don't get bored with it...i keep it as it is;-)

JC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,652 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
JC, I get that problem with water trapped either inside both door skins or behind the seals. It comes out like Niagara Falls when I open the door!

Water trapped and not draining away is a potential corrosion problem later on. I haven't worked out if it can get to a certain level and get out or would eventually leak inside the car and make the front carpets wet and smelly. I would like to get to the bottom of it. Have you any ideas?
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top