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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys said I would update you all good and bad news on my roof and still looking for answers if you can help.
Good news the expert advice on my roof not going up due to air in system was bang on and can now do a full cycle going down and up BUT ONLY if someone manually pulls the boot release cord from inside the car when its due to open!!!
if let to its own devices the boot lock does not open when it should in either direction of operation.
I have replaced the rear distance sensors and there is nothing to indicate issues on the dash.
THE BOOT lock is a 3 pin design and the lock operates with the KEY and the internal switch and also pulls down when closing so everything seems just fine with the boot lock!
My EOS specialist thinks that the lock is not being told when to unlock on the roof opening or closing procedures.
From the previous owner She advises that her BCM body control module was changed due to water ingress and changed with a seat leon one with the exact part number and then remapped/programmed to a VW Eos the specialist agrees that it looks like its been recoded correctly.
ANY IDEAS WHY ROOF OPERATES FULL CYCLE WHEN BOOT OPENED MANUALLY FROM THE PULL CORD IN THE REAR SEATS BUT DOES NOT DO AUTOMATICALLY!
thanks in advance.
Chasa
 

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What does diagnostics tell you? If you tried to open the roof with diagnostics running, the roof would fault on the lock and diagnostics should tell you what may be wrong? The lock and pull down are two separate parts & functions, but their operation is linked with a second set of instructions coming from the roof controller during a roof op. Just because the lock and pull down works with the key or switch, doesn't prove the message from the roof controller is correctly received and getting through? Windows work the same way. You can run them all down on the switch, but there's a second operational layer which allows the roof controller to do the same. If you get into this sort of mess using non EOS modules, you can't go much further without using specialist CAN diagnostics kit and the brains to use it.

Whenever you mess about using electronics from other cars you run the risk they will not be compatible. Electronics may look and seem similar but their internal firmware may be incompatible with the extra layer of functions and language for the EOS roof, which is the ONLY convertible in the range. Your tech. may have done some coding but unless they started with the correct factory binary and the same hardware version I wouldn't assume compatibility. The part number may be the same but the firmware coding of internal chips may not be. Try a diagnostics scan first and save the results. These should list fault codes and the module firmware versions which can be cross checked to your VIN by your EOS specialist. I suspect dealers meet this problem of people changing modules and ECUs quite often. The first thing they will do is scan every module in the car and cross check each module code and firmware with the original factory build data. If firmware updates are required they will make sure these are compatible with what is already in the car. They have access to factory binaries which you don't have. If people have fitted Chinese clone parts, their scanner effectively throws up a red screen because OE firmware is incompatible. I don't blame them for charging to replace with genuine OE spec. parts.

Adaptation coding via diagnostics can send the change codes which you may see on a laptop, but it doesn't mean the firmware inside can use the new data or it went in the right place.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your reply
the technician advises that no error codes are coming up on either vag com or vcds. (vcds) which he recently purchased and used to get air out of system for roof operation as you correctly diagnosed.
But now we are in a position of the boot lock not throwing up any fault codes and working manuall with use of internal pull cord at back seats and electronically with key fob and internal boot release switch on drivers door also the vw badge emblem works also and on closing the boot motor pulls it down.
its only on operation of the roof that the boot lock does not operate electronically so with no fault codes coming up I was looking to see if anyone has had a similar fault.
 

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...But you fitted a non-EOS BCM which you 'think' you made compatible and your EOS is now non-standard? Diagnostics reporting is integrated into module firmware and if you have fitted a module from a non-EOS car it may not tell you about EOS specific roof faults involving that module?

I wouldn't trust your non-EOS 'adapted' BCM (or other non-EOS modules) unless you can confirm you tried it in a fully working EOS and the roof worked o.k without errors or having to pull the emergency trunk release.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
...But you fitted a non-EOS BCM which you 'think' you made compatible and your EOS is now non-standard? Diagnostics reporting is integrated into module firmware and if you have fitted a module from a non-EOS car it may not tell you about EOS specific roof faults involving that module?

I wouldn't trust your non-EOS 'adapted' BCM (or other non-EOS modules) unless you can confirm you tried it in a fully working EOS and the roof worked o.k without errors or having to pull the emergency trunk release.
As ever voxmagna thank you! i will now try and trace an original Body Control Model from an eos but one question are they all different (i.e coding) according to diesel/petrol and engine sizes?
 

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If you had the old module you could have taken all the parts information from it?

Now you only have a couple of options: 1. is to go to a V.W Stealer with your EOS VIN and get them to look up the latest EOS part and price. If they are helpful they will tell you what older parts it replaces which you may find used? Option 2 is to try and get a module for the same EOS year and engine type. I don't know if anything changes with engine type but possibly with Lowline, Midline, or Highline versions? If you find an EOS BCM for your engine type and it's say 1 or 2 years newer, I might take a chance that could be compatible? IMHO don't use new Chinese clones with a 'similar' part number. When a dealer replaces faulty electronic modules they will fit the latest version part aligned to your VIN, but they also have instructions and binary flash files to update any other modules which may not be compatible with their later version.

PS: I'm surprised you said the Seat BCM had the same part number but perhaps you don't realise every single letter and number in a part code is important? For example, MY07 Tdi Lowline original Central Locking Control Module has 3C0 937 049 AE and revision (firmware?) 00H52000. The last 2 letters 'AE' if you Google always come up as EOS and other models use different letters e.g a Seat is AJ. My long coding is 05888F0700041500470A00000F00000000085D035C0001. I'm not saying my unit is right for you, but there's plenty there to chew on.
 

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Found out a little bit more the bcm that was originally in the car was damaged by water ingress hence the technician was unable to save the original data from the original firmware!
On purchasing a replacement bcm with identical part no 5K0937086C (from a seat Leon) it was reprogrammed to what is believed to be for my car a 2010 1.4 TSI small bits of coding had to be adjusted for heated seats fuel flap etc!
Thanks voxmanga for your working code which we will try today hopefully to see if that fixes the boot opening issue (although I note yours is from an earlier model ) failing that does anyone have the correct working bcm code for my model? (2010 1.4 TSI)
As requested I have attempted to source a bcm from an EOS with same part number an internet search identified that it looks like I can only get a second hand EOS one from a abroad using the same part number! UK second hand units for sale currently are different part numbers.
Thanks chasah
Lastly I apologise for the multiple threads on this topic it was not intended!
 

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Have you checked yet with a V.W Dealer parts list against your VIN number for the latest version and what it may replace? It's not just 'data' from the original firmware that needed to be saved but the EOS specific firmware as well! We can all save adaptation data with vcds, but I'm not saving the firmware - that requires V.W dealer tools to reflash binary files into the module. I think you are getting confused between 'working code' inside a module which cannot normally be changed with DIY diagnostics and additional adaptation data which the modules use to run and is programmed by the diagnostics tool into a reserved part of module memory. Obviously the firmware already 'locked' inside EOS modules needs to know about EOS specific functions not found on other models. That's why 'most' functions may appear to work, until you get to a function involving the EOS roof which the other modules are not programmed for.

I hope your search works for you. I've looked inside some electronic modules and versions can have different chips and hardware layouts. Whilst your tech. may have copied over the firmware (?) but I think you might mean adaptation data?, it still may not work with the copied firmware if the board and hardware is a different (vehicle) version. If you still had the damaged module you could have compared the manufacturing codes on the boards.

If I went to my local dealer who looks up the ETKA parts for my VIN, I know I am getting the same or a compatible module, even though a later version may need some work doing to update and make it compatible with older modules. The Dealer may be expensive but then they are giving you the complete end to end solution and you drive the car away with a working roof when they do the work.

Most changes to the EOS arrived with the 'Facelift' models 1F8. MY07 is pre-facelift 1F7. But I still think a 3C0 EOS specific module variant stands a better chance of working and there are a few on Fleabay for about £30.
 

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The 3C0 and 3C8 modules are for the old mk5 electrics. The 5K0 module is for the mk6 electrics.

Since the part number is the same, the firmware should be compatible, and whilst the mechanic said it “looks like” it was coded correctly, I would assume that it wasn’t. Trunk assist is one of the options on the mk5 comfort control module so should be on the mk6 BCM.

For me it’s worth taking another look at the coding. Buy an OBDeleven, save the coding, test settings one at a time and revert to what was originally coded if it doesn’t work. It’ll cost less than a new BCM.
 

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Thank you appreciated! problem was he couldn't save the initial data in the bcm as it was water damaged! So he tried coding replacement from a seat Leon (
with same part number) from what he believes is the software from my model.
Chasa
 

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You will also need all the options on the replacement BCM setting correctly. Either there will be a fault code logged for the boot motor on the BCM, or the setting to say "this car has a boot motor" is not ticked.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well Voxmagna we tried your coding today for BCM and unfortunately it failed at first stage so no luck with boot catch opening but as you recommended earlier my tech and I are trying to source a second hand Body Control Module (BCM) from a VW EOS with a part no of 5K0937086C .
But even if someone has the same BCM with same part number who can share their code with us to check against our vehicle. Thank you to all who are assisting Im desperate to get this working before the weather turns!
BCM CODING.jpg
2.jpg
3.jpg

I will attach photos of our VCDS coding
22684
22685
22686
 

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The German forum suggests (possibly) that byte 1 of your BCM coding might want to be 00. I don't know, and I hope another user can give you a better answer, but it's worth a go to try it and put it back if it doesn't work.

(edit) More reliable coding from the German forum here which also suggests byte 1 should be 00.
 

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Until you can try a confirmed EOS module I think you can go around in circles? Curiously from my long coding my Byte 1 is 88 and of course mine works. I haven't scanned and checked but I know the rear lock is impulse driven because I added a mod. which is here, to wire a switch to the convenience module so I could get out of jail when the emergency release won't work (lid is part raised by the pull down motor). The upper lock uses a spring to bias the claw to closed and the solenoid bar connected to it only needs a short impulse from the convenience module to release the claw, then it self closes on the spring as the lid opens.

What's strange is your code 88 appears to show the trunk lock as Bit 3 = 1 = contact. If I was a logical human I might think the syntax mean't Bit 3 should be 0 not one, unless an inversion occurs past the BCM? But there's another long winding garden path you can go up: You give your module (which isn't the same as mine) my coding and you think you can believe what yours eyes tell you on the vcds screen. WRONG because there are vcds traps. The template vcds puts on the screen comes from their label file, which vcds has already identified as module 5K0-537-086-C and selected label file 1K0-937-08X-09 CLB from their list. My long coding for module 3C0 937 049 AE uses label file 3C0-937-049-23-H.lbl. Now I know vcds can do some strange things. When it scans and finds the car module list, it then tries to marry up the module hardware with a label file which RossTech have made for it. If it doesn't find an exact match it might choose something 'close'. The first thing you must do with vcds is a full scan and check the label files are correct. If you have a genuine vcds, support can produce the correct file and include it with updates. There are zillions of label files. This is the one big advantage of OBDEleven over vcds. The zillions of helper files for all the VAG modules are stored in the cloud and they can easily keep the list up to date, whereas RossTech have to get sample files from users to include the correct helper in the next updates. Even so, provided you check your module label files are compatible, you have no more issues unless you change vehicles. The problem with the EOS is their manual update system relies on a small number of EOS vcds users to keep them informed as new models were coming out. If you are using a Chinese vcds clone, you have no chance at believing anything!

The long coding between vehicles can only be shared if they use the same vcds label file because that assumes the modules are the same. I don't doubt somebody could go through all their module adaptation settings and if the same text appears in a different module, try and code according to that. It means the long coding between modules would be different, but if the adaptation codes are accepted and work, then different modules might work. But there are too many things to get wrong. If you send an adaptation code to a module it will always be saved and stored in it. After saving if you then read back the long code it should be what you sent. But the vcds on screen text display with tick boxes only interprets the long code according to what RossTech told it and this correlation is in their label or helper file. Even though a code change is sent and received, there is no guarantee the firmware will see it and respond unless the firmware is EOS compatible. Since most VAG cars are not cabriolet, they don't need extra routines in most module firmware to handle EOS options.

Unfortunately in the past, V.W seem to have produced a plethora of these modules customised for each vehicle type which explains why there are so many similar but different parts. But they seem to be learning: I bought 2 OE EOS rear window controllers knowing what my part numbers were and there could have been 3 options. Paying for the latest Stealer controller, it was listed on ETKA as retrospectively compatible with all EOS years. One module to suit all then! Searching through the latest version of ETKA you can find more modules like that but a search on Fleabay for the replacement part number rarely turns up anything. The Chinese are also trying the 'one size fits all' for their clone modules mostly only tested on Golfs and Passats. Their approach is to work out what inputs a module gets, what outputs it needs to give then design simple hardware and 'emulate' the OE functions in software. That's why their part numbers have one letter different! They are nothing like the OE hardware, even though boxes look the same. Nobody at V.W or Bosch has put them through compatibility or performance checks. V.W Dealers cannot update firmware in Chinese cloned modules and Chinese products can be rip offs from older versions.

But you want to go cheap so are left navigating the minefield of similar but different modules and take the risk they work? Unfortunately you are unlikely to pick up these latest new OE replacements used as they would only be found in repaired cars. I'm sure if you ask your Stealer for the price and part number they will give you a number different to what you think and tell you it replaces all previous years? Unfortunately, my ETKA needs a re-birth as it's out of date and expired. Online website versions don't always give the same details.
 

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The template vcds puts on the screen comes from their label file, which vcds has already identified as module 5K0-537-086-C and selected label file 1K0-937-08X-09 CLB from their list. My long coding for module 3C0 937 049 AE uses label file 3C0-937-049-23-H.lbl.
Yours is a mk5 CECM, OP's is the mk6 BCM - never mind coding, they're completely different modules. mk6 BCM is essentially an integrated CECM and comfort module but the only similarity is they're both module 09.
 

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Hi
Did you manage to solve problem ? . Im having exactly the same fault . Ccm/bcm damaged due to water ingress . I bought o/e ccm £480 . From VW dealers
Roof only working when boot switched with button on drivers door. My eos is 2009 1.4 tsi . Whats interesting is original convenience unit is 5K0 937 086 C .Replacement
convenience unit is 5K0 937 087 D Z4J .Prob a supersession ???
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just back from holiday and looks like we have finally sorted the problem but was waiting on my technician to give me full run down on what was the solution.(which I will do!!)
But Basically at this time with the help of this forum it was suggested that the BCM coding was wrong making the boot release fail on roof opening/closing I attempted to purchase the same BCM that came out the car PART NO 5K0 937 086 C from a UK breakers but with no joy!
Then was attemptng to purchase the same second hand unit from abroad from a EOS which was being scrapped but as again was suggested from this forum I contacted the german EOS forum by registering and asking (with the help of google translate!!!) for the coding of my model of BCM the german forum was excellent and they provided me with the coding for my YEAR AND MODEL EOS BCM here's the link
(you may have to cut and paste into your browser if doesn't take you direct)



and hey presto looks like success but need to check with technician to get full story.
I did not take it to VW dealer my technician had the software to reprogramme the BCM himself it was just trying to get the correct coding sequence.
This forum and german one assisted no end as I said I will fully update thread later when I have all the information!
Thanks Chasa
 

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Just back from holiday and looks like we have finally sorted the problem but was waiting on my technician to give me full run down on what was the solution.(which I will do!!)
But Basically at this time with the help of this forum it was suggested that the BCM coding was wrong making the boot release fail on roof opening/closing I attempted to purchase the same BCM that came out the car PART NO 5K0 937 086 C from a UK breakers but with no joy!
Then was attemptng to purchase the same second hand unit from abroad from a EOS which was being scrapped but as again was suggested from this forum I contacted the german EOS forum by registering and asking (with the help of google translate!!!) for the coding of my model of BCM the german forum was excellent and they provided me with the coding for my YEAR AND MODEL EOS BCM here's the link
(you may have to cut and paste into your browser if doesn't take you direct)



and hey presto looks like success but need to check with technician to get full story.
I did not take it to VW dealer my technician had the software to reprogramme the BCM himself it was just trying to get the correct coding sequence.
This forum and german one assisted no end as I said I will fully update thread later when I have all the information!
Thanks Chasa
Many thanks chasa. Will give it a go with that coding. Although only difference i can see in your coding compared to mine is byte 0 .Mine is 48 . Yours is 40 .
thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #19
THIS WAS THE CODE FOR OUR 1.4tsi eos 2009-2010 model without zenon headlights with kessy take off kessy hooks!
40000A3B8A251A6040080088740081E443515E0875200DF064804000A140
Guys thank you all for your support on the forum the BCM codes obtained from the german forum worked a treat!
Roof and all catches now working and enjoying the last of the sunshine with the roof down.
Chasah(y)
 
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