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Discussion Starter #1
Apologies for what is bound to be a noob question, but have a non working roof and would like some advice.

Rung a couple of local VW specialists to book in on a diagnostics session, and got differing advice. First one gave me assurances that a diagnostic session would give the issue and would then be able to advise on a quote to fix. Second advised that diagnostics would probably not provide any details, and motors/sensors would all need to be checked.

Now happy to do either, just concerned that have two different views from two garages.

What would be the best route to take?

Cheers

Dave
 

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Diagnostics as a tool on its own won't fix your fault, but 'may' tell you things that are wrong. This doesn't always mean a list of 'fix this and that' and everything comes good. As a tool, they have to repeat diagnostics scans as they get more involved in hands on fault finding.

I would say if you are looking for diagnostics to give you a one fix solution which with little knowledge you go and fix yourself, then it probably isn't going to work for you.

You first opinion is the one I would have more confidence with but ask if they have V.W EOS roof trained technician on site or have access to one. Once they start work they may get lucky and fix your roof without the roof training, but there could come a point when they are out of their depth and you don't want a huge labor bill before they trigger the roof technician. The second opinion is wrong if they are using compatible V.W diagnostics because it definitely does give information about EOS roof sensors.

My take on this is if you own an EOS, only get diagnostics scans done where they are using V.W compatible diagnostics suitable for the EOS roof. Any other kit may be o.k for Golfs & Passats, but will say nothing about your EOS roof. Your second opinion has some truth because mechanical faults won't be diagnosed, but the electronic sensing seeing things wrong will give clues to those knowledgeable about the EOS roof.

However honest they are at quoting for a roof repair based on a diagnostics scan, don't be surprised if once they start fault finding the pathway has a different outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, that was my concern re the diagnostics scan. £60 for the response m, "your roof does not work".
Did not realise that there was specific diagnostic software for the roof itself, will check confirm and then take it from there.
As you say, not expecting a miracle fix if anything half expecting, issue 1 to get fixed and then reveal issue 2.... (and repeat, but at least I can confirm that the right diagnostics is being used.

Thanks again
 

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The only thing specific is 'V.W vehicles (inc. EOS) compatible' because the EOS roof system uses diagnostics codes not often not present in 'Generic' multi vehicle diagnostics which most independent garages use. If they are a genuine V.W Stealership they will use the V.W VAS kit and you will be o.k.

You will have to pay for the diags tests and result anyway and should ask for a print out copy, you could take the car away and research what 'might be wrong' before going further? There's always going to be some uncertainty, but at least you have time to plan the next step whilst asking about on site V.W EOS roof trained technicians. They are probably getting fewer in number now. You might even find another V.W Stealership that does have one on site and even driving a hundred miles you would be sure of getting the problem fixed and maybe cheaper in a shorter time?
 

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I'd have to ask both garages for more details before picking one. The first could be assuming that an appropriate fault code will show up, or they could know how to query the measuring blocks and so on. The second could be working from experience with the roof knowing that it will require further investigation, or they could have never seen the roof before and not really know what they're doing.

You should also invest in your own second opinion - i.e. a diagnostic tool like VCDS or OBDeleven (see the link in my signature). OBDeleven costs roughly the same as a diagnostic check, and it or VCDS will serve you well for any DIY endeavours you wish to embark on. The lottery-win scenario is it will tell you something that someone on here recognises and there's an easy fix that doesn't need a trip to the garage. Not likely, but still ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the response. Re VCDS would you just go for V1 or the Pro? As car is a 2007 will there be any additional diagnostic features on the pro, or is it just long coding etc.,
Cheers
 

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I've had my usb cable HexCan vcds for years and mine has no limitations. But now they have moved to new business models for pricing with controls built into the cable hardware. IMHO I think it was a wrong move because it encourages alternatives, hacked or otherwise. Short term they maintain their revenue stream with the high priced versions intended for garages, but long term high prices bring competition from other sources.

There's a free basic version of vcds software called vcds-Lite that can be used with basic cables. You don't want that as it gives no more info than cheap Chinese generic ELM types and won't give EOS roof information. The 'HEX-V2 enthusiast' versions are close to what I have, but now they only offer licenses done through the cable hardware for the number of vehicle VINs. If you only run 1 to 3 VAG vehicles the 3 vehicle VIN enthusiast version should be sufficient for most DIY and will do the same things the more expensive licence offers. The software download packages are the same.

Your next consideration is USB cable connection or Bluetooth wireless link. The V2 can be used offline without an internet connection as the vehicle specific module data is kept stored on a local PC. Once you buy the product, updates (the vehicle data) are free, but to be honest on an older EOS you won't need updates unless you buy a much newer car or replace key electronic modules with newer versions. I get a timed screen nag reminding me to update, but nothing gets crippled and I'm lazy at updating because I know for MY07 the vehicle data doesn't change, but their blacklist data for hacked clones does! This is how their 'updates' literally kill pirated clones for those who try to update them. Since USB A isn't present on Android smartphones without adaptors, some choose the bluetooth wireless versions. If you keep the cable with the car, running vcds on a mobile phone can be useful, although diagnostics rarely fixes roadside breakdowns!

An alternative tool is OBD Eleven. This and another version of vcds called' VCDS Mobile' use cloud based servers over wifi or mobile network on smartphones and mobile devices. Cloud based means it requires an internet connection to work virtually with the software app and data on their exclusive servers. Look carefully at the 'service' model for subscriptions and choose either a higher one off fixed price, or regular subscription based prices. I have used my HEX-CAN vcds for over 10 years and it has paid for itself many times over. Garages charge £60-90 for a diagnostics scan taking 15 minutes!

When you buy a diagnostics tool, buy from a legitimate credible source because you don't want to brick your lovely EOS by uploading bad data, then have to tow it to the dealer for an expensive reflash!
 

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I don't know what pricing looks like for VCDS, but €65 for the original OBDeleven with a Pro licence (for Android phones) or €85 for the new OBDeleven dongle with Pro licence (for Android or iPhone) is a pretty good bet, and doesn't have a limit on the number of cars you use the dongle with.

The Pro licence gives you long coding and a whole bunch of other stuff.
 

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Thanks, is that a one off price forever, or a subscription that has to be renewed else the software bricks? Is it registered to one device ID at the start? i.e if you lose or break your phone you have to buy another license?
 

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It’s a one off price forever and it’s connected to your OBDeleven account, you can change OBDeleven dongle (I went from original to v2 on the same Pro licence), change phone (I went from Android to iPhone), change cars.

I am skeptical about stuff that relies on servers on the internet at the best of times but I’ve never had problems with it. I keep my OBDeleven in the car all the time, with a handheld VAG code reader as a backup. Aside from tricky maintenance operations that need the VAS5054, it’s all I ever need.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well good news and bad news,,,,,
Diagnostics arrived, updated and run... No issues recorded/stored with roof :(
So need to do some more gigging,,,,

windows all go down when roof button is pressed, and go up when closed. Sounds like sensors activate/check around roof on closure.

Sunroof switch does nothing other than seem to activate motor in roof behind my head but no movement.

Anything else to check with diagnostics, or do I need to start taking stuff apart. If so what first :)

Cheers
 

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The roof won't work if the sunroof is faulty. All windows down is the first stage of roof op, but also the sunroof should be sliding back. If it doesn't and its end position when open isn't detected, that's why your roof op won't go any further and why you are not seeing roof sensor errors - because there aren't any. If you can hear the motor running but the sunroof doesn't move, it sounds like the motor has a damaged gear due to excessive friction in sunroof?

Which diagnostics did you buy?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Bought the OBDeleven Pro.
Would it be an idea to wind sunroof motor back manually and lubricate, check for damage?

 

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Bought the OBDeleven Pro.
That should detect and tell the truth about the roof sensors. If you can hear the motor running and nothing moves, it's pretty obvious that there's a mechanical disconnect between the motor and the glass and you will have to go and look at the motor? But if the gear teeth are ripped off you will prove it by trying to wind the glass open, because the manual winder will go around and around with no movement - just like the motor!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Can the sunroof get stuck.....
Noise is not motor working and toothless cog spinning, more of a motor trying to work hard against something thats jammed
 

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You will have to do some work whatever is wrong by looking at the motor and sunroof parts to see what's jammed. If you keep trying to make the motor work so hard you could eventually break the cog. If you try manually winding the roof open and it's stuck fast, you could round off the key slot so it's down to you working out how much pressure you are using on the key to see if the glass moves. If it doesn't, then the motor won't move it either.
 
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