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Discussion Starter #1
Hi folks,

Another day another problem with the EOS :rolleyes:

Now the roof has got stuck closing, as you see the left hard side panel hasn't closed (right one is shut as normal).


I searched around and found out about various issues with things snapping off but it all looks OK to me apart from the cable that looks to pull the flap down doesn't have any tension (although it's all connected OK).


VCDS doesn't give many clues (I've also posted on the Ross Tech forum):
Address 26: Auto Roof Labels: 1Q0-959-255.clb
Control Module Part Number: 1Q0 959 255 B HW: 1Q0 959 255 B
Component and/or Version: Verdecksteuergeraet 0622
Software Coding: 0655362
Work Shop Code: WSC 00020 551 00000
VCID: 372ADDD1A34961CF6F7-8062
1 Fault Found:

02805 - System Interference
014 - Defective
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101110
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 63
Mileage: 85244 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 11:39:28

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 11.80 V
Voltage: 11.70 V
Voltage: 5.00 V
Error Code: 1

The measuring blocks for Group 2 are:
HS1: 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 :HS12 Hall Sensor Status

If anyone has any ideas (apart from an angle grinder - already thought of that one!) please let me know.
 

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You could use the angle grinder to cut off the roof and drive a non-convertible EOS when it's not raining? :)

The flap itself is spring loaded to open and the wire pulls it closed. I suspect you haven't checked the wire run properly and compared with the good side? :confused:

Because the far end in the trunk is attached to the roof hinge. The attachment point is some kind of plastic clip which others here have had break? But with one good side all working, it should not be that challenging to see what the problem is. There can be far worse problems to get stuck into. I don't understand why VCDS is needed for this fairly simple mechanical problem?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, I tried VCDS as when I had problems with previous convertibles it's usually been a sensor or something so thought posting the scan might shed some light.

Regards the cable run I can't open the boot (due to the roof I assume never had an issue before) and can't see anything obvious to check in the position the roof is currently stuck in.

What's the next step do you think? Sounds like checking the cable run is the next step but I'm not sure how to do that given the above.
 

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Hi. If you can open the roof, then that will also open the rear boot lid at the later stage of stowing it. You can then have a look to see what has come off, most likely the cable has detached from the flap, though looking at your picture it's probably the other end.
 

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Other trick, open roof to the stage where the other flap is open the put back by hand as the roof is stowed.
 

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Understand the present situation your roof is in if that vcds scan is correct for the present position:

1. Bits 1& 2 are set therefore the roof package started to move back and the top roof pillars are not locked into the windshield 'A' frame.

2. Bits 10 &11 are set: The rear window frame lock sensors say they are on but should be off? Looking at your photo, the rear window frame has started to move but the sensors say it is still locked.

3. Bits 9 & 12 are set zero which says the flaps are down. :confused: Are you sure that scan you posted here is the current position, because I would have expected the raised flap to show sensor bit 1?

The roof control system is fairly tolerant to 'flap only' problems and whilst it will stop on error, as others have said you can normally hold the flap down by hand or push it up if stuck and the roof will carry on its operation. But the advise from others has assumed you have just operated the roof as normal and not been playing around with it part open? You will read here about my voxprops. They stop the rear window frame sliding rearwards during service and getting the out of sync problem I now think you have.:(

I think the roof system has now deliberately locked out to stop damage, because something worse other than flaps is going on?

My suspicion is whilst you've been messing about with the roof part open, the roof pump has timed out of pressure and the rear window package has slid rearwards, the 'C' locks are closed either holding the frame or stopping it going into the lock. The sensors are saying the rear frame locks are on but the frame isn't inside the locks where it should be. The rest of the roof parts are out of sync so the controller doesn't know what to do safely.

You can confirm this by trying to push the rear window forwards. If it feels squidgy against hydraulic pressure and moves a little you are lucky because the locks are not holding it and you may get sufficient space to push them open and slide the rear window rearwards into the now open locks. If the locks are closed on the rear window frame you only have a small gap to get a flat tool in to open them. If the rear window can be moved forwards to the center of the roof with both locks open, the controller may re-synchronise. After leaving the car overnight to lose some residual hydraulic pressure you can try lifting the rear window. You should be releasing hydraulic pressure on the pump first, but if you can't open the trunk that's impossible. :(To get the system parts to synchronise ideally you need to physically get the roof into a fully open or closed situation manually. This means your sensor scan should show either 111101100110 fully closed top up or 000011110000 fully open top down.

I think your present problem isn't just side flaps although they could still be faulty on the wire? Your roof parts have got out of sync and you now have to try to release the 'C' claws to get the roof manually into a fully closed or open state.

There are 2 sets of 'C' claws: 2 lock the trunk lid and act as the rear hinge support for swing out. But if the roof op is incomplete they stop the trunk lid from opening normally on the badge release. :( A second pair further forwards lock the rear window frame. Search here for my posts on these. I suspect the rear window 'C' locks are closed. You can just about see those looking through the small gap in the window frame at each side and with some ingenuity as I explained in previous posts, open them. :)

If you want to approach the problem by manually opening or closing the roof as per V.W procedure, you have to get the trunk lid open first to open the pump pressure release valve, then there are some rams you can get to from inside the trunk. You can try pulling the red emergency trunk unlock first, but that only releases the center badge lock, not the 'C' claws either side.

If all this seems a bit much for you, dealer diagnostics has some diagnostic control tools not present in vcds which may be able operate the 'C' locks I'm talking about. It's probably £100 for them to do it, but saves you crawling through the ski hatch looking for something you don't know about or doing the same poking tools through the rear window frame, if you know where and what the 'C' locks look like?
.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I fixed it thanks to the advice given above by Voxmagna - thank you for your thorough explanation!:)

I've taken a few pictures that might help someone solve the same problem below. Basically the base of the roof is locked in place by the C clamps, on mine the roof got confused and closed the c clamps before the base of the roof was in place, effectively the roof latch was sitting on top of the C clamp rather than inside it! Dead simple fix, push the C clamps back (thus opening them up again) and let the roof latch find it's happy place inside the C clamp. Job done!

What's a C Clamp? This, you can see the roof latch sitting on top of it.


Here's another view with the roof lifted slightly off the C clamp.


So now what? You need some space to access the C clamp so lift the roof slightly and hold it in place with something that isn't going to scratch your car. I used some 1x3" pine. Don't force it, just lift it enough to get the wood under.


Next you need to persuade the C clamps (both sides) to open. You must understand the difference between pressure and force - do not force anything BUT these do require quite a bit of pressure to move so don't expect them just to simply move back. I alternated between C clamps opening each one 10mm or so at a time rather than opening one all the way then doing the other - that felt more sympathetic to the hydraulics to me but might not matter.
You need something fairly long and thin (40cm or so) to reach the C clamp - I had a wood vice that did the job:


The other side:


That's technically it, remove the wood, gently help the roof down if needed and Bob's your uncle your roof should be working. If the roof doesn't go all the way down the chances are you didn't push the C clamps back far enough, you'll be able to check this visually. As soon as you turn the ignition on the C clamps will lock, securing the roof and everything should work.

Now I say technically that's it because the problem with my roof was the hard plastic flap/panel on the left was open because the cable came off. The first time I did this I didn't put the flap back in place first, the sensor tells the roof the flap is open and the controller knows that's not right and so the roof still didn't work. Simple fix was to repeat the above but THIS TIME put the flap back! If you're in the same boat you'll need to weigh it down as it's spring loaded:


The reason the flap was broken in the first place? This little $%&£ing plastic clip that holds the end of the cable that moves the flap. Now I need to do some reading up on that but at least I can drive the car now!


Thanks again Voxmagna!
 

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Well at least my advice didn't frighten you off to the Stealer! It's very hard to read into other owners problems, then try figuring out what is wrong when sat at a computer.:cool:

Now you have learned some things: You won't let roof parts slide back on their own in future, you found the broken clip that attaches the flap wire to the roof hinge (your first problem) and now you are expert at solving the 'out of sync' roof by finding the C claw locks and opening them!

However, you had the simpler scenario I mentioned where you could just about lift the rear window frame. The worst scenario is when one C lock is closed locking the rear window frame, and the other is open. :eek: You cannot easily push the frame up on the locked side and have to work through a very small gap with some gentle forcing to push the C claw latch open.

You haven't had the trunk lid C claws go out of sync yet either and had to fish them open from inside the cramped and dark ski opening. :( IMHO most of these out of sync problems (which I've had) seem to be self inflicted when the roof operation is interrupted mid cycle and the position of roof parts are moved from when sensors stored their last position.

As some others have had that clip break and it kills the roof op. I would design another clip solution using metal parts to never have the same problem again. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
In case anyone reads this and needs the part number for the clip it's 1Q0825960C. TPS got mine next day for £10. Swapped it this morning now it's all good as new.
 

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Is there any lubrication that needs to be performed for the convertible top???
 

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Thanks, Vox.

I understand the roof seal issue. What I'm asking about is lubricating and otherwise maintaining the mechanisms that open and close the roof. For example, in simply closing my boot it is very stiff and more or less groans when I do it.

Thanks.
 

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I wasn't sure about your question.

The pivots for the roof hinges shouldn't need lube. They build in a lot of slop, but I have gone around using an aerosol lithium based grease with a tube on the can.

Your issue with the trunk lid is probably due to worn gas struts. They are very cheap and can be easily replaced one at a time. You can try some lithium grease on the chrome, but it may be time to just replace with new.
 
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