[Trixie]

Hi I am a new user to the site and would really value your input. I am an Eos owner since 2007, same car always a pleasure never a problem. Was at VW dealer before Christmas and am frustrated.

Problem:
When I try to close the convertible, the [System Error- Close convert. Top]sign lights up and I have to close the windows manually.

-When I open the convertible, it opens fine except for tension noise from the right flap, does not prevent it from opening. Boot opens when convertible is open.

- When I close the convertible a number of things happen all on the right hand side

- boot/trunk section closing on the right hand side is noisy and sounds strained
- flap on right at window is strained is noisy (same as when opening)
- when boot is trying to close, there is a motor/sound of it trying to close and possible a latching sound. Boot does not close down properly.
- Effect is that the slit at the boot on the left of the car is much narrower than the slit on the right hand side.
- The boot does not open when the roof is up.

I have checked car for water and has been water on right hand side in window well, some also on the left. Checked the spare wheel well and as far as I can see --as I can only see it with convertible open -it is dry.


Started : Boot would not always open even when using key to pop but would open after a couple of tries.Bit of water leakage in boot.
Closing convertible not always possible on first go, with sign showing as above but on second/third go it would close perfectly.

Went to VW dealer just before Christmas. Spent 5 hours on it no conclusion, they need car in for one day but could be a week at an hourly charge!! They carried out a GFF and found no faults stored for roof system. The right rear latch is not locking correctly and require further hours to check the roof control unit and roof alignment.

I would really appreciate any advice you have or if anyone else has had this problem. Thank you in advance.

 

[voxmagna]

You give a very good account of the circumstances. Some of the noises you describe are unusual.

I can may be see two issues: The first issue is windows and trunk locking. These MUST be fully operational otherwise the roof system will fault. They are the first thing to get right. If you can't open and close windows or lock/unlock the trunk from the normal controls, then those faults need investigating first. A second layer of control is provided by the roof system. In some fault cases the normal 'manual' controls work, but the roof system will not (for example) lower/raise the windows or operate the boot lock. It sounds as though you have to get the manual operation correct. Do you think the roof/boot hinges could be bent? Are there signs the boot lid when closed is not symmetrical either side, because something wrong there may be stopping the boot release?

Another issue could be alignment or distortion of a part like a roof hinge. Can you get the roof into the part open position with the boot lid hinged open and then turn off the ignition? After a time delay of several minutes the roof pump pressure will relax and parts of the roof may start moving freely, either to the open position or forwards to fully closed. Anticipate this and take care! Have two people one each side when the roof pump valves switches off. Moving together they should be able to carefully move the roof parts about, whilst a third person can check dimensions either side to be the same and also the parts move freely without jamming or scrapes. On later models you may have to open the hydraulic release valve to move the roof parts about freely. There is no real adjustment for anything badly out of alignment which can be caused by opening the roof on to bags placed in the boot forbidden area.

I would be a little cautious about the dealer you are using. They are supposed to have VW EOS roof trained technicians but I suspect some may see very few EOS's and you could be paying for them to learn and get up to speed. You should ask the Service Manager if they have EOS roof trained staff on site and how much repair work they have actually done on EOS roof systems. It's no good letting a technician loose on your car if they went on courses a year ago and haven't seen or fixed any EOS roofs since!

Before committing yourself to this dealer for further work, phone around a few other genuine dealerships (not franchises!) or try the VW national service contact center. Do not expect anybody to take your list of faults and come up with an answer over the phone. If you have to drive 100 miles to a dealership with an experienced roof technician and leave the car, consider it.

 

[Trixie]

Thank you Voxmagna2 very much for your time. Much much appreciated. I will follow your instructions and revert. I absolutely take the point not to pay a dealership to learn what they should be already trained and experienced to apply.

 

[voxmagna]

The EOS is like many other cabriolets that don't have huge volume sales but are 'specialist' cars as far as their roof systems go. Even the new Audi soft tops have similar roof systems. Body and engine issues have a lot in common with other VAGs and you can be confident with most dealerships because they see a lot of similar cars. But roof system problems are in a league of their own.

I did have another thought which could be a simpler problem and would be a cheaper fix: The trunk lid is aligned and kept under slight upwards spring tension by two black struts either side of the trunk lid. When you unlock the trunk there should be some upward spring tension that lifts the trunk lid about 150mm. Those struts can get 'soft' or go stiff. Replacing both would take about an hour if that is your problem. Bent or distorted roof hinges would be a much bigger problem to repair.

 

[Sharon Brooks]

I have a 2010 VW Eos Hardtop Convertible, which l brought in 2011 as a Demo model, in 2015 the car stalled on me twice while driving l booked it into VW Service and they could not find anything wrong l was very concerned because it was very dangerous so l booked it into a reputable car mechanic who detected the EGR Valve was cracked and seized up, it was replaced. In 2016 my convertible roof malfunctioned l booked it into VW Service, they detected a broken Guide Part which was replaced now they have told me l need a new Guide Rail, the CD-R if this repair is $21,180.00 absolutely outrageous price my car is not even worth this traded in. My car is 4 1/2 years old l paid $65,000 and only done 35,000kl so it does not get used a lot and the roof has not been used regularly l need your advice as l am devastated to think l paid this much money for a car and it's worth nothing.

 

[voxmagna]

EGR valves are a common problem on most modern cars. You have already discovered that VW couldn't nail your problem and an independent did, so alarm bells at that dealership should be ringing.

I don't know what the 'guide part' is they are talking about unless it is in the sliding sunroof system? Sometimes I wonder if there is a tendency to quote for a complete replacement roof or may be it is a put off because they don't have the skilled roof technicians? A new roof guarantees if there is any misalignment, then a replacement roof with all the seals will fix the problem without future comeback. But that is a big expensive job requiring parts to be painted your EOS color and a lot of labor time to fit. For most EOSs older than 3 years that work and parts cost can be more than the vehicle value as you have found.

My advice would be to research local non VW cabriolet specialists for an independent shop that is knowledgeable on a range of different models, then get a second opinion. Labor time for work on these roofs will be high, but the independent will probably have a lower hourly rate than VW. Other cabriolet hard tops are found in Audi, Mercedes, Peugot etc.

 

[EosSydney]

In 2016 my convertible roof malfunctioned l booked it into VW Service, they detected a broken Guide Part which was replaced now they have told me l need a new Guide Rail, the CD-R if this repair is $21,180.00 absolutely outrageous price my car is not even worth this traded in. My car is 4 1/2 years old l paid $65,000 and only done 35,000kl so it does not get used a lot and the roof has not been used regularly l need your advice as l am devastated to think l paid this much money for a car and it's worth nothing.

Your car may be out of warranty but this does not mean that VWA will not come to the party. You should ask your dealer to submit a goodwill claim to VWA.

Important to remember that the period defined in the manufacturers warranty cannot limit your rights under Australian consumer law which essentially applies a reasonableness test to define warranty terms.

I also found this remarkably similar case on Carsguide.com.au that may well assist you in pushing your case :-

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/q-and-a/replacing-eos-roof-35121

Cheers

George

 

[voxmagna]

That's a good answer if you can make it work for you.

I had an EGR problem on a vehicle pre-owned and 4 years old outside factory warranty. The best deal offered was parts free and I pay the labor which was most of the cost. Labor will be a big chunk of the cost for EOS roof work. Another factor on 'Goodwill' is whether your EOS has been regularly serviced by a VW shop (not an independent).

If it has, there is another angle to try: The little known and advertized EOS cabriolet roof service should be included at the appropriate times when your EOS was serviced by a VW service shop. If roof service has been neglected or sunroof rail lubrication not done and as a consequence there is now expensive roof damage, I think you might have a good case of negligence by the service shop (unless when asked you said no). In all of this you are a non-expert relying on others so they must bear a higher responsibility for duty of care. If you used an independent shop and roof service/inspection was not done, your case may be weaker.

You can go along to any VW service shop with your EOS VIN number/proof of ownership and ask about its service history if you don't have the service log.

 

[EosSydney]

That's a good answer if you can make it work for you.

I had an EGR problem on a vehicle pre-owned and 4 years old outside factory warranty. The best deal offered was parts free and I pay the labor which was most of the cost. Labor will be a big chunk of the cost for EOS roof work. Another factor on 'Goodwill' is whether your EOS has been regularly serviced by a VW shop (not an independent).

If it has, there is another angle to try: The little known and advertized EOS cabriolet roof service should be included at the appropriate times when your EOS was serviced by a VW service shop. If roof service has been neglected or sunroof rail lubrication not done and as a consequence there is now expensive roof damage, I think you might have a good case of negligence by the service shop (unless when asked you said no). In all of this you are a non-expert relying on others so they must bear a higher responsibility for duty of care. If you used an independent shop and roof service/inspection was not done, your case may be weaker.

You can go along to any VW service shop with your EOS VIN number/proof of ownership and ask about its service history if you don't have the service log.

Whilst being a dealer serviced vehicle would possibly influence the decision, the greatest influencing factor would be the owner's rights under statutory warranty as distinct from VW's warranty. Providing servicing has been carried out by a qualified person, i.e. a licensed mechanic (not necessarily a dealer) and a given component fails prematurely, under Australian consumer law the importer is liable to rectify the failed component. This applies even if the owner is not the original purchaser of the vehicle.
If VW don't come to the party, there are mechanisms for resolution via the ACCC who have the power to decide what is reasonable and make binding determinations. In other words, goodwill is more often a case of if VWA don't come to the party they'll be dragged before the tribunal!

Cheers

George

 

[voxmagna]

Sounds good. The OP should keep a diary of all events and encounters (what was said verbally or otherwise, dates and times etc) with the dealership or service shop used. The OP needs a full detailed report in writing of the roof problem from a VW dealership, together with a statement of estimated costs for the repairs showing parts and labor costs separately. Any charges they make for investigation or producing the report form part of the claim.

 

[flyerswh]

Voxmagma you have such wonderful suggestiolns for the EOS. I purchased a 2007 with 32K on it from a doctor who kept it in garage. The roof seems to work fine. I want to keep it that way. Can you or other owners suggest some easy ways to keep the roof leak proof and operational for a long time. Some quick tips like what can be done to keep the rubber seals from deteriorating etc.

 

[silvershadow]

Just use the SEARCH button in the Menu bar on top of this page, use "Krytox" as the keyword and "search in posts" as the setting and all will be revealed.

Make sure you have a large cup of coffee or similar and a packed meal organised as it will take some time for you to go through the responses which will include a link to an illustrated guide on how to lubricate the roof.

 

[k9hunter]

Hello all. I am a "new" member to the eos family... actually I have been referring to the forum for over a year, but first post by me.. so, I purchased an 08 eos for my wife last April 2015... She absolutely loves it! Late last summer she started having issues with the top coming back up. Never had any problems with it retracting. I was able to "help" it up as she used the switch. Everything seems to be working correct, it just didn't have enough strength to lift the top. Once it was up and out of the trunk it moved on its own and finished the cycle. I checked the pump and found it was slightly low on fluid so I bought the correct fluid, topped it off and things seemed better.....for a few days. Same problem occurred so I next drained all the fluid and replaced. For the remainer of the year it worked but always seemed slow to me.
moving up or down.... forward to now, she has used the top often since probable the March timeframe. Always slower then I expect, but always completes the cycles with no problems until 1 night last week. When she came home from work with the top down it would not go up and I again had to "help" it. For about a week ...slow but no problems...until....Wednesday evening. Again would not come up, so I again helped it and again Thursday same thing. On Thursday evening, I checked the pump and it seemed cool to the touch, level OK, but I did notice 1 solenoid valve extremely hot....
I guess my question is....could the solenoid(s) be creating this problem, or should the pump be rebuilt? Or both?
Also....is there a hydraulic pump rebuild kit? I can find a reservoir kit but not a seal kit and a new pump is expensive.
It doesn't appear to be anything electrical as I can always assist it with no problems. I know the over temp setting is kinda low...and living in the South Eastern USA, the pump, even when not in use, can get fairly warm during the day just from the car sitting in the sun.
Any suggestion from similar past experiences?
Thanks to any and all for advise.

 

[voxmagna]

Everything you say points to the roof pump. The workshops can do a hydraulic pressure test on the pump, but I think you can expect it to come back low. There must be some error codes coming up in diagnostics, have you had a scan done? That should be the first thing, although if the roof doesn't start on its own you can expect a system time out error.

If you have the grey foam box around the pump, get rid of it (search my post). The solenoids are about 10 watts if I remember, but when the roof is fully open or fully closed at the end of its sequence, the valves are not powered and should be cold. If one is hot all the time that suggests a roof controller problem although if it is at the first stage and nothing is moving you can expect the valve to sit there getting hotter and hotter. You really need diagnostics on your side to confirm what's going on.

I wouldn't jump straight to the expensive roof pump until you know what diagnostics are saying. I know there are shops that will just replace both pump and roof controller, because they can be lame on real fault finding. I do have the solenoid valve sequence for each stage of the roof operation. Internally the pump is quite complex with solenoid and shuttle valves and there will be no individual VW parts. If I was 100% sure it was a pump problem and not the controller I would Google search for somebody doing a recon. unit a lot cheaper than buying new. You could put a voltmeter on the pump connections to make sure you are getting 12-14 volts when it operates and there isn't a bad connection somewhere. Changing pump fluid won't get you anywhere unless you are losing fluid and it is dropping in the reservoir due to a leak somewhere.

I forgot to mention, open and shut the manual release valve just in case it isn't fully closing.

 

[k9hunter]

Thank you for your input and suggestion voxmagna....and I am very glad you remembered to mention the manual release valve....funny enough... it was loose! I tighten it, actuated the roof... and no issues what so ever..the cycle even went much quicker then before and was more in line with how I thought it should.be....I ran it up and down a couple of times and none of the solenoids were hot...a little warm, but they did have to work so I was not alarmed by their temp. Since my wife loves the top down... I will monitor the function, pump etc for a few more days but I honestly don't expect any more "issues" for now....if I do. Check release valve first.....
Also, I did run a scan and didn't see any fault codes but all I have is an OBD2 /CAN scanner for now. I'm investigating the VCDS/VAGCOM software and interface cables for future troubleshooting, but fortunately to date..I haven't needed it. Also, there is no grey box surrounding the pump/motor, but was a foam padding wrapped around it. I unwrapped it from completely around the unit, but did place it back on 1 side when I reinstalled the plastic strap only to secure the pump some so it won't slide around too much. I'm going to investigate a better mounting later, but my wife needed to go to work..so I'm on hold for now.
Again thank you very much.... like I previously mentioned , I come to the site and review posts when needed and the community here has been very helpful....I will return I am sure.

 

[voxmagna]

The reason I had the after thought was you said you were lifting the roof up by hand. When the release valve is closed as it should be, that is usually quite hard to do, because you are pulling against the hydraulics.

Closing the release valve has saved you a lot of money!

 

[k9hunter]

Yes it has saved quite a bit of money...new pump/motor is about $700.00. I couldn't find any reconditioned online, but did find a company that will rebuild my pump, just had to send it to them and $325.00 which does include shipping in both directions... FYI... I may not have been completely clear. I wasn't pulling against the hydraulics.. my wife would work the switch and the roof would move, but struggled, so I just helped it along....since it would go down using the switch with no problems and with using switch up, but with my help, I was pretty confident the electronics is working fine and it was something in the hydraulic system....just thankful it was such an easy fix.. so again..thanks for the afterthought.