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Discussion Starter #1
So my eos has the common sunroof gear worn issue. I have a replacement. I will be regreasing the tracks as I suspect poor lubrication is what caused the worn gear in the first place. Is the sunroof removable by hand cranking the motor.
Or am I better off just spraying some lithium grease on the tracks in situ while cycling the operation of the motor by hand cranking?
 

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Is the sunroof removable by hand cranking the motor.
No, you have to remove other parts. While you are in there, look at the large ABS cover sitting over the sunroof motor. I've been getting strange annoying noises in my right ear for a while now. I found the corner screws on my cover were lose. Also that large cover rings like the proverbial bell. I hope I've fixed that now by adding some strips of elastomer sound deadening.

Answering a question from another poster there are 2 pieces of important information: Greasing is important but doesn't tell you if what you have done is effective and guarantees long life from the new gear.

The motor d.c current load is a good guide to the amount of friction it is working against. Unfortunately, whilst I have figures for the window regulator motors, I haven't yet measured the sunroof motor in operation, but current much over 2 Amp would interest me. The problem with the sunroof is if there are alignment issues with its tracks, torque loads can change over the extent of its travel from the fully rear open (when roof operates) to fully closed and any checks need to be done through the range with the roof closed and locked.

A simpler check for most is to measure the torque required to manually operate the roof on the hex screw. For my good sunroof I measured 7-8 Nm for the whole distance of travel. If you don't have a torque wrench that goes this low, you can use a spring balance on the end of a 3/8 or 1/4" socket wrench. If your torque measurements are much higher then you must dig deeper than just lube and look at the Bowden octopus cables. Be careful with that manual adjuster hex head because it doesn't seem that deep and a hex bit slips out easily? If I was replacing the motor I would see if I could replace it with a deeper head.

Did you buy a new OE motor and does it have the same nylon gear or is it metal?

I am probably the only DIYer to have gone deep into my roof side members which I wouldn't recommend to everybody. But it is enlightening in areas of sunroof track alignment requiring a special service tool, how the long seals along the length of each side member work and the discovery of an internal water 'deflector' and design of the drain coming out to the front and rear. In addition, there is a plastic rectangular slider through which each side of the sunroof moves which I think would be hard to locate and lubricate.

Don't forget to check the sunshade because its friction adds to the motor torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your reply. I was intending to remove the abs cover to get more access to the tracks. I just have the replacement gear it’s nylon. I was thinking to grease and run the motor from the crank first prior to installing the new gear and trying it powered. To see if I can sense areas of resistance across the track.
but your idea of testing the current output isgood and will give it a go to after doing the lube service.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ideally I want to remove the whole glass off the tracks. Is there a guide online somewhere that shows the necessary steps required?
 

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You really need to find or buy the workshop manual. Although I've now been inside my roof side members, you may need the front roof parts open and propped so the front sits back from the 'A' pillars? The sunroof slides are part of the side member assemblies and you can't just spread and distort them to remove the glass. Doing any work inside the side members e.g removing a rail or track from one side to remove the glass has horrendous alignment implications if you read the manual. I suspect the same may be true to access and remove the sun shade.

When I did my torque test, the sunroof ran as smooth as glass from end to end.
Where did you get the nylon gear from?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah I’ll have a look for a workshop manual.
I got the gear from eBay.
I think I’ll just try the greasing first and hopefully it runs smooth. I don’t know what condition the tracks are in as I’ve only just got the vehicle and the sunroof was always not working.
 

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Good luck. I hope it works for you and you don't rip teeth off the new gear. The thing I don't like about this type of problem is if you don't take care and nail it, when you operate the roof miles from anywhere and the sunroof starts sliding back and stops, you are left with an EOS roof stuck open in mid operation, locked out of the trunk and persistent open roof warning messages and dings from the console. The same applies to window regulators.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah I know the car is for my partner too so I’ll make sure it’s all in working condition before I plug the motor back in for her lol
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok so I had a bit of a play around with the sunroof motor after work.

It seems to move pretty freely except for one spot where it tilts back and raises about half way. Not much more resistance but you can feel it maybe due to the extra axis of movement?
Previous owner had used some basic grease it was all gummed up and attracted dirt. I cleaned as much as I can out and regressed with white lithium.
The sunroof opens and closes quite smooth without having to exert too much pressure on the manual crank. Will wait for the new gear and see how it behaves under the motors power. But I’m happy that it operates and opens and closes fully without issues.
Hopefully this was the cause of the roof not opening, but I won’t hold my breath lol

22249
 

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It may be just the light reflection and your photo, but something looked odd where the roof side member meets the 'A' pillar?
 

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It may be just the light reflection and your photo, but something looked odd where the roof side member meets the 'A' pillar?
Vox, I think it is an optical illusion as the driver's door is not fully closed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah drivers door not closed wide angle lens and reflection of the rubber because of poor lighting don’t help lol
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So I changed the motor gear tried to open the roof it slides open about 5 inches then goes back to close itself then opens and stops about 2 inches from closed.
Is there a calibration procedure for the sunroof. I feel like the motor is out of sync?
 

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My roof had to be recalibrated by the dealer after I removed the sunroof motor to fit a new metal gear and moved the roof manually. The sensors were out of sync. Could be your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
My roof had to be recalibrated by the dealer after I removed the sunroof motor to fit a new metal gear and moved the roof manually. The sensors were out of sync. Could be your problem.
Thanks for your reply, I suspect that’s what the issue is too. Will have a look on vcds if there’s a calibration mode for the motor.
 

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The sunroof motor has to be 're-adapted' if work has been done on the sunroof but there are no position sensors to get out of sync like the rest of the roof. In V.W speak this usually means using a diagnostics tool but there is nothing in vcds. However, there is Zilch on the internet but I now believe diagnostics isn't needed and there's a simple 'procedure' which the V.W techs will do akin to re-calibrating the front window one touch and drop down. I can't vouch for accuracy as some aren't EOS specific and you may have to experiment with the methods. Be aware that if the roof is not in a good reset position e.g all parts fully closed with no errors, the roof controller may still have control over the sunroof and re-adaptation may not be possible until you fix any roof faults.

I've had my sunroof out of action and battery disconnected for a while now so I expect to do the re-adaptation. But I've been there before and I'm certain I just did something like 1) and it recalibrated itself. The sunroof motor controller must learn the position where the sunroof is fully closed equivalent to the pinch protection. That puts an initial zero into the motor revolutions counter memory and is the only thing it needs. Every other position from normal open to extended fully open for a roof op. is then counted from this zero These other position values (past zero) are in permanent memory and don't get erased. Problems arise when people start using Non-EOS parts or at worst change the motor gearing ratio because those values will be wrong unless the sunroof controller is reflashed with EOS firmware. When you work on the sunroof controller with a battery disconnected for a long time or replace the controller with genuine EOS new, the stored zero fully closed is wiped and replaced with an error code saying 'I need re-calibrating'.

If you can't get the sunroof to learn after trying some of these methods, disconnect power to the motor for an hour and try again. If the controller learns something which may be wrong, you will have to clear its bad data and try again. If the sunroof and roof parts have been moved for repairs, I think the roof ECU will also have the wrong position info. and can't make sense of where roof parts may have moved to.

I shall be doing this soon but you need to refresh the stored position values for the roof and the sunroof fully closed zero. I will pull the plugs on the roof controller for an hour, make sure the roof is fully closed and locked, then wind the sunroof manually to fully closed. Re-connect the roof controller, scan and clear any error codes then re-adapt the sunroof first. Re-scan and check for any sticking roof system errors and if none, try opening the roof. But be warned there may be a risk of trunk lockout!

Post your method that works if you have any success.

1. The sliding sunroof is initialized as follows: Start the engine and fully close the sunroof. Pull up and hold the sunroof switch for about 10 seconds until the roof moves briefly. Then release the switch. Pull the button up again within 2 seconds and hold it there until the sunroof is fully closed. It is now calibrated. If this procedure won't work for you, I think that's when V.W diagnostics might be needed to reset the stored pulse count after changing a motor, the gear or the cables?

Did you try to close the sunroof with the key in the door when you got out? Maybe that would work. If I remember correctly, the windows and sunroof will open if you hold the key in the door in the unlock postion and they will all close if it's turned and held in the lock position.

2. Power windows that have an 'express open' or 'express close' feature: Run the window fully down, fully up, then fully down again, holding the button in the full up or full down position at all times when the window is operating.


3. V.W Phaeton specific: Adapting (norming) of the sunroof components consists of two work steps, which must be performed one after another in direct succession. The first step is the initialization. Here, zero positions are used as reference points for the movement paths. The second step is the learning phase. Here, the running characteristics are measured for optimizing pinch protection.
a) Switch on ignition.
b) Bring rotary switch to zero (roof closed) position. If a drive motor moves, wait until it stops still.
c) Initiate emergency close function by pressing rotary switch and hold it pressed. See the owner manual for details about how the emergency close function works, and don't press up with excessive force on the front of the rotary dial. Also, DO NOT attempt to press up on the front of the rotary dial unless the rotary dial is in the 'closed' position - otherwise, you will break it!
d) Initialization begins within a few seconds. If operating noise is heard from wind deflector drive motor, release rotary switch immediately.
The first work step, initialization, is now complete.
The second work step, the 'learning' or adaptation process needs to be carried out immediately after initialization is completed (e.g. without driving the car, turning the ignition off, or otherwise interrupting the flow of work).
a) Press up and hold the front part of the rotary switch again.
b) Within a few seconds, the glass panel will move into the tilt-open position, close again, then open completely by sliding back to the fully open. The panel will move again into the tilt-open position, then back to the closed position and stop. The sunroof shade will also move to the closed position at same time, along with the window.
c) Release the front part of the rotary switch after sunroof shade has closed and stopped moving.
d) Wait 5 seconds, then turn the ignition off.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks vox I’ll try it tonight.
I thought it would be something along those lines similar to recalibrating the windows to auto up and down. ??
 

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I just found a short paragraph in my EOS drivers manual pages 60-61:

Convenience closing.
  • Hold the key in the door lock of the driver door in the locking position until the windows and the sliding/tilting roof are closed
  • Release the key to interrupt this function.
Initialising the sliding/tilting roof.

If the sliding/tilting roof cannot be opened it has to be initialised.
Pull and hold the button for approximately ten seconds until the sliding/tilting roof moves briefly.
  • Then release the button
  • Pull the switch up again within 2 seconds and hold it in this position until the sliding/tilting roof has closed fully.
  • The sliding/tilting roof is now initialised
There you have it, straight from the V.W horses mouth!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So i tried holding the button for the 10seconds reset procedure but it didn’t do anything. Any advice on how to grease the outside tracks. I can grease the parts on the inside where the Bowden cables run on. But unsure how to get grease into the tracks where the plastic guides for the sunroof runs on the track?
 
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