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Hey all, got a bit of a situation with my 2011 2.0 TSI Eos, from searching the forum all the previous threads seem to point towards getting it fixed ASAP, the problem is how.

I bought the car 6 months ago from a non main dealer, the service book shows it has always been serviced at VW by both its previous owners, until its last one at the place where I bought it.

There's the distinct timing chain rattle when revving it in neutral, when slowing down and when starting the car, a local VW specialist is almost certain judging by the age that it has the dodgy tensioner fitted.

I have 6 months warranty left with Auto Protect, but confirmed via a phone call with them yesterday if the issue is deemed to be wear and tear, the repair will not be covered. The VW specialist also says from his experience, questions such as "how did the car get to you?" will be asked and when answered with "it was driven here. " The case will be closed.

I've explained the situation in an email to the manager of the garage where I bought it yesterday, but am yet to get a reply.

I've decided to not drive the car and use my work van for now as there were 3 engine timing faults logged when I went to have this looked at and I've experienced the car juddering and engine light coming on when this happens.

This whole issue feels distinctly unfair when customers in the US are being reimbursed for the exact problem I have. Does anyone have any good advice on how to proceed? I simply can't afford the £780 I've been quoted to have this fixed on a car I paid £6200 for only 6 months ago.
 

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Hey all, got a bit of a situation with my 2011 2.0 TSI Eos, from searching the forum all the previous threads seem to point towards getting it fixed ASAP, the problem is how.



I bought the car 6 months ago from a non main dealer, the service book shows it has always been serviced at VW by both its previous owners, until its last one at the place where I bought it.



There's the distinct timing chain rattle when revving it in neutral, when slowing down and when starting the car, a local VW specialist is almost certain judging by the age that it has the dodgy tensioner fitted.



I have 6 months warranty left with Auto Protect, but confirmed via a phone call with them yesterday if the issue is deemed to be wear and tear, the repair will not be covered. The VW specialist also says from his experience, questions such as "how did the car get to you?" will be asked and when answered with "it was driven here. " The case will be closed.



I've explained the situation in an email to the manager of the garage where I bought it yesterday, but am yet to get a reply.



I've decided to not drive the car and use my work van for now as there were 3 engine timing faults logged when I went to have this looked at and I've experienced the car juddering and engine light coming on when this happens.



This whole issue feels distinctly unfair when customers in the US are being reimbursed for the exact problem I have. Does anyone have any good advice on how to proceed? I simply can't afford the £780 I've been quoted to have this fixed on a car I paid £6200 for only 6 months ago.


First thing is if it’s definitely been diagnosed as a timing chain then don’t drive it or the bill will run into a couple of grand when it brakes. You could try VW directly and see if they will stump up some of the costs as a good will gesture. I wish you good luck with your quest and hope you get an outcome that suits you.

Mick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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First thing is if it’s definitely been diagnosed as a timing chain then don’t drive it or the bill will run into a couple of grand when it brakes. You could try VW directly and see if they will stump up some of the costs as a good will gesture. I wish you good luck with your quest and hope you get an outcome that suits you.
Thank you for your response, Mick. I've rung my local VW dealership today, given them the situation and it's being looked into.

Here's hoping...

Still not heard anything from the garage I bought it from!
 

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What's the mileage of the car? AFAIK if its a wear-and-tear item, then whether the seller (garage) has any further responsibility towards the car, or the costs of it, depends on a number of factors including the price, mileage, age of car, how it was described, etc.

I've never bothered with "warranties" etc - I am guessing Auto Protect is something like that - due to the various get-out clauses in their T&Cs. But its worth a thorough review of that too. It may be you can find a sympathetic garage (doesn't need to be VW Main Dealer - they just have to know their stuff properly) you can word their diagnosis in such a way as its difficult/impossible for Auto Protect to wriggle out of - obviously they'll try though. But also bear in mind, if a car's been serviced by VW thru its lifetime, then the next ones aren't, its residual value will go down a little due to not being main dealer serviced.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What's the mileage of the car? AFAIK if its a wear-and-tear item, then whether the seller (garage) has any further responsibility towards the car, or the costs of it, depends on a number of factors including the price, mileage, age of car, how it was described, etc.

I've never bothered with "warranties" etc - I am guessing Auto Protect is something like that - due to the various get-out clauses in their T&Cs. But its worth a thorough review of that too. It may be you can find a sympathetic garage (doesn't need to be VW Main Dealer - they just have to know their stuff properly) you can word their diagnosis in such a way as its difficult/impossible for Auto Protect to wriggle out of - obviously they'll try though. But also bear in mind, if a car's been serviced by VW thru its lifetime, then the next ones aren't, its residual value will go down a little due to not being main dealer serviced.
It was bought with 71k on it, now after 6 months it has 74k. I paid £6200 and its a 2011 pre-facelift model on a 60 plate. It was described as being fully main dealer serviced with no outstanding issues on any of the 2 previous owner's paperwork I inspected before purchase.

I've already had the front discs and pads replaced by the garage I bought it from within a few weeks under goodwill as there was a lot of juddering when braking. I've since found the rears need replacing too as they are corroded, the handbrake cables have worn through the mounts and there's a leaking rear damper. Basically another £350+ worth of repairs required on top of the timing chain issue.

I was told by the VW specialist that warranty co's will send out independent examiners to check over any part they report as broken, so I don't think there's much if any room to wiggle anywhere.

STILL no reply to my email to the garage's manager today as well! Still living in hope of some good news from VW.
 

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IMHO there can be a big difference in a used car warranty from a V.W dealer and the same car sold by a non-V.W dealer. I had some issues after buying MY07 from a genuine V.W dealer, which at the time fortunately was still in the factory warranty period which included roof seals. V.W make big claims as to how their used vehicles are thoroughly inspected before being sold, but in your case you don't have this to fall back on.

I am aware of an interesting timing chain tensioner problem on a BMW motorcycle that grenaded a nearly new bike. The owner had zero problems before shipping it on car ferry to another country. He rolled it off the ferry ramp and hit the starter, there was an almighty crash bang wallop and a nearly new engine grenaded. :eek::eek:

What happened was the timing chain tensioner relies on oil pressure to hold the chain in tension. There was nothing in the mechanical design to hold tension on the chain. During the ferry crossing with the bike on its side stand, oil had drained down from the tensioner and valve gear. At the first cold start there was no tension on the chain, it misfired once, kicked back and the engine blew up. A modification introduced a one way spring loaded pawl to hold stop the chain going slack with no oil pressure. I thought all chain tensioners had that!

You cannot mess about with timing chains or their tensioner. Cold starting after a long period standing could be high risk for you until you get it sorted.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You cannot mess about with timing chains or their tensioner. Cold starting after a long period standing could be high risk for you until you get it sorted.
Despite advice from the initial garage to "see if it gets any worse closer to the end of the Auto Protect warranty" I've done the sensible thing and stopped driving it for now.

The oil pressure has been checked and is apparently fine. Another VW specialist advised I could try some B&G engine performance restoration additive, in the hope it would de-gunk the tensioner and get it pop back into place, but I think that could well be a waste of money and time as there wouldn't be a replacement version of the tensioner I have fitted unless it was duff.
 

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I know it will be blindingly obvious to most, but oil quantity is more important. There used to be a design flaw with certain Vauxhall Zafira engines where the lack of oil caused similar issues.
 

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The extended coverage for the timing tensioner ended in January 2019, I was 2 weeks to late to claim mine so I just did it myself.
 

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Change Tensioner

There are a lot of Youtube videos on how to do it yourself. I did my wifes car and took about 5-6 hours, but I did not rush it.
I did not have any issues, but decided to do it after checking it was one of the faulty ones and decided my son could do with some life skills education by helping me.

I also can't stress enough how important oil changes are with turbo cars. In Australia the service intervals are every 15,000km, I change the oil and filter myself every 7,5000 in between services (I also do this with my Turbo Diesel 4wd). I bought the car 3 years ago with 80k on it and now have 120k and (touch wood) have had zero problems.
 

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I agree on the oil changes but not for reasons of reducing engine wear.

Even on a turbo diesel V.W say you can use their more expensive long life oils, which is a lazy and cheaper way of saving on maintenance. :( I'm lower infrequent mileage now and having seen how quickly my oil goes from pristine yellow to black sludge, I'm now using the standard V.W spec. oil and changing every 6K miles.

These engines and particularly the newer (even lower emission) versions with EGR coolers use exhaust gas recirculation without decent oil traps and whether you have a CAT for gasolene or a DPF for diesel, having cleaner engine oil will reduce expensive clogging. Read up on engine oils and how their formulation and contamination can reduce the life of a CAT or DPF. It's one reason why V.W put their own spec. on oils.

I did my own rubber timing belt change. First time around I had to buy a couple of cheap Fleabay service tools (Crank lock etc) and read most of the 'How to's'. Most important thing on my engine was to consider replacing the water pump at the same time since it is driven off the same belt. That may not be the case for a chain. If there have been issues with the chain tensioner then that gets checked and sorted at the same time. With some chains running in oil the biggest challenge for DIY can be getting an oil tight seal after removing and replacing covers. Cover gaskets if fitted should be replaced withh new and their mating surfaces thouroughly cleaned and oil/grease free. That can be hard if oil is dripping out so leaving covers off overnight with a catch can underneath helps.

Another VW specialist advised I could try some B&G engine performance restoration additive, in the hope it would de-gunk the tensioner and get it pop back into place,
Will this specialist pay for and replace a blown engine?
.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Will this specialist pay for and replace a blown engine?
.
Are you saying the B&G route is a terrible idea?

Bit of an update for you...

My local VW dealership reported back that timing chain and related parts currently have a 0% goodwill contribution status. Other than writing to customer services, despite the car being previously serviced with VW main dealers, they seem to be a dead end.

The garage I bought it from have similarly said that they are not liable for defective parts, despite them paying out for new front discs and pads within the first week of my ownership.

The car is booked in at the VW specialist I originally mentioned next week so someone can actually get eyes on and decide exactly what the problem is, then it's on to Auto Protect. Let's see...
 

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The advise given is don't take chances with a timing chain mechanical failure. It doesn't sound like you are getting any assistance to pay for the work. Actual eyes on is a good thing but I thought the historic failures didn't easily show up on inspection and the V.W recall approach was to replace parts with better designed parts that would be less likely to fail?

My guess is that nothing obvious will show up on an inspection or it might appear as 'fair wear and tear', you won't be able to claim for a problem that isn't there yet, but if you don't want to drive a time bomb it would be your choice to replace parts as a precautionary measure at your expense? :confused: The exception in this type of situation is a safety notice recall where lives could be at risk and that could be why you have had discs and pads replaced. But a cam chain failure is an economic expense which everybody will wish to avoid paying for and give you the run around. Until something catastrophic happens I doubt you will have a case (which you might lose).

I had a similar issue some years ago (not VW) with so called 'corrosion warranty'. I noticed paint bubbling on a couple of body panels after 4 years. The specific terms of the warranty were that panels had to be 'perforated' and mine were regarded as 'cosmetic deteriation' until some years down the line if they rotted through. As a preventative measure I had the body panels treated and paint blended in the affected areas because I didn't want to keep seeing the problem getting worse. They then said the warranty was null and void. I no longer have much trust in car warranties because the urgent pro-active repair stood up for 3 years until that car was sold on.
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I put my vin number in the lawsuit check, and mine is one of the old tensioners. Luckily I only have 47,000 miles and I have an extended warranty until 2021, but in the meantime, I would like to know if there is a good way of prevention, so that I can take mine in right after the warranty expires in 2021.
 

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It will be like an Act of God if yours fails. It's like having a faulty Whirlpool electric drier and asking when it might burst into flames. :eek: Mechanical malfunction of a timing chain affected by its design is a time bomb - your engine may grenade, it may not and you should try to move the liability to somebody else? If you have an engine with a suspect defect in a critical component (timing chain or tensioner) there really is no guarantee of doing something simple that might stop its failure. The only solution is to replace the engine parts. If I had an engine with a manufacturing or design fault on a piston I would not expect to hold back a catastrophic failure using different oil that somebody on the internet said had worked for them - a sample of 1!

Why not write formally to V.W informing them and ask for it to be replaced free of charge, otherwise you could hold them responsible for compensation if your engine grenades? If they don't agree, you have to decide like the other poster whether to be proactive and pay yourself or wait and hope it never happens. Law suits tend to work on situations AFTER an event has happened and only before if there is a risk to life. If you were sold a vehicle and the seller knew there was a recall and didn't tell you, you might have a case but it's always prudent to ask the question before paying.Check what warranties you have and what they cover. They would normally expect a warranted vehicle to be regularly maintained, so what does your service shop say about this? It wouldn't surprise me if a design problem which a manufacturer is aware of is excluded from normal warranty and should not be relied on to give you a new engine.:confused:
 

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Bockegg,
I would not delay. You don't say what year your Eos is and who holds the extended warranty. I would document your case and get hold of VW to see if they are going to fix it. I would not count on a non VW extended warranty to fix your issue. They will look at it as VWs problem and not theirs.
 

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Let's not get confused. The last replies were to Bockegg a new poster who was asking for some kind of 'keep it going until I get it fixed' kind of solution. :eek:

We know nothing about his EOS or the extended warranty, but it sounds newish. :confused: The newer the vehicle the higher its value (working!) and the more is at risk if the engine grenades.
 

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There should be NO dilemma - just fix it ASAP!

I can’t say what experience the EOS community at large has had with faulty timing chain tensioners, but owners of other VW models can say plenty. The issue with the tensioner is well know and the problem is if/when the chain jumps a tooth or two on one or both of the cam sprockets. These engines are an interference design and a single chain link out of perfect alignment can result in pistons hitting valves. In minor cases you have a bent valve or two and perhaps a damaged piston, which can be repaired a significant cost. In really bad cases you’re talking a replacement motor.

A few years back on the Vortex Tiguan forum, a poster there documented what is believed to be the sequence of events that leads to the jumped chain jumping. To be clear, this is NOT an oil pressure/quality issue. The defect is in the teeth internal to the tensioner’s ratchet mechanism that holds the tensioning piston in place. Faulty tensioners that have been dissected, clearly show a wear pattern that leads to failure. From that description, it’s clear there is no prevention other than replacement of the tensioner before the jump occurs.

Word to the wise... bite the bullet and replace defective tensioners ASAP because catastrophic failures occur without warning. Waiting for VW or a warranty company to ride in and save the day is okay as long as you have parked the car. The cost of the tensioner itself is not that bad, but the labor to do the job is where the costs go up. You can replace it yourself and there are plenty who have done it, but access is a royal pain, so many defer to expert mechanics. This is a classic case of pay now or pay much, much more later.

The cutoff date for the defective tensioner is generally believed to be Dec 2011 or Jan 2012. Teh previously mentioned online tool will help you check your car’s VIN, but you can also remove the rubber grommet on the timing cover and visually inspect the tensioner to see if it is the updated part. Google or search the Vortex forums for guides on what to look for.
 

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The car is 2012 2.0 TSI gas Eos. When I entered my VIN number on the law suit page, it did indicate that I was eligible, so I assume that my car has the old part that could possibly fail. My extended warranty is called Premier Essential Dealer Services extended warranty contract. The contract states that it covers mechanical failure that is not associated with neglect.

I'm pretty sure that if something would happen with the timing chain or associated parts with only 47,000 miles, that I will be covered. When this warranty expires in December 2020, I will still only be around 55,000 miles.

Also, I have zero indication right now that there is anything at all wrong with the car. No symptoms and no sounds. There is no recommended service to be done on this car for this problem that I know of right now either. However, after my warranty is up at the very end of 2020, I would like to know what exactly should be replaced, so that I can have piece of mind going forward without any type of warranty.
Thanks.
 
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