[evolvingpowercat]

Hi, I just completed a 1000 mile trip in my 2007 EOS. I have Garmin GPS and the GPS reads about 3% higher - both speed and distance than the EOS speedometer and odometer. I noticed that VW USA has a service bulletin out for this problem that states that USA EOS have their tire size set wrong based on Euro tire size spec not on USA tire size spec.

Anyone else have the same issue with their EOS? Guess the 3% under reporting of miles rolled could be considered a good thing - I am getting 3% more miles before the warranty runs out than what I should!

I am getting my EOS serviced and am going to report the problem and note the service bulletin to the dealer. I will add what happens to the thread.

Randy
2007 VW EOS 2.0T, 18" rollers

 

[schoolhousefred]

Actually, if the truth were known you are getting screwed ouit of 3% of your warrranty. Your odometer will the limit 3% BEFORE the actual warranty limit, and your speedometer will register 3% faster than your actual speed! It's the law ... speedometers must register the same as or faster than your actual speed to be legal. So, VW, like all manufacturers set them high on purpose to allow for different rim and tire sizes. On my EOS, with 17" rims, it actually registers 5% high!

 

[GOgg]

So, VW, like all manufacturers set them high on purpose to allow for different rim and tire sizes. On my EOS, with 17"rims, it actually registers 5% high!

I was wondering what adjustments manufacturers made on their instrument calibration when different size wheels are used. From what Fred says they probably take the largest and opt for that as the calibration standard for mph.

However, what about those modifiers who put 18" wheels where there have only a standard of 15". Does this make a difference and is it checked for compliance with the law on spedo accuracy at MOT time??

 

[Gavster]

I remember that on past cars, where I have changed the tyres and wheels to bigger ones, you always have to do a calculation to work out the correct profile tyres to use in order to keep the speedo legal. It's all about the total rolling circumference of the tyre.

 

[SiJ2000]

Indeed...

(there.. a completely futile comment from me, but one extra post! )

 

[evolvingpowercat]

Update on Speed Issue

Hi, the VW Dealer did accept this as a warranty issue per VW Service Bulletin 90-07-03 that was issued May 24, 2007. It will probally still read too fast as Fred has stated in a earlier post but hopefully will be a little closer than it is now. This bulletin tells a VW tech how to use the VAG-COM to slightly change a module parameter that defines how far the car moves each time a wheel rotates.

The bulletin states that the factory default setting of the parameter is not the correct value for USA EOS tires, instead it is the same value used for EURO EOS tires that apparently are slight different circumfrence than USA EOS tires.

Will update after I pick the car up tonight after service is completed.

Randy

 

[schoolhousefred]

Hi Randy,
Thanks for the explanation .... I wasn't aware the the VAG-COM can be used to re-set the parameter. I suspect there is some legality that says it cannot be set to understate road speed. It's reasonably easy to check with a GPS. Have a good weekend.

 

[GOgg]

Do any of you know which is the most accurate speedo the analogue one or the climate control work around?

According to mine I think the analogue one reads high (5-7%) but could someone with a GPS confirm which is more correct or are neither to be trusted.

Thanks in advance

 

[SpeedyEOS]

The car 'knows' the correct speed. You can view it if you have Dual-zone climate controls (digital readouts). Press Econ, then right top air distribution button. Both readouts will display 00. Turn the left dial to 19, then use the fan speed to turn to 1. The right readout will be your speed in mph ( if you use 19.0; you'll get kmh).

Since the computer knows the correct speed (I've check on one of those road-side readouts), your miles will be correct. So your warranty is OK! I've been on a long trip and was able to use Google map turn mileage.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

Update on US VW Speed Reading High

Final update: VW Dealer said TSB I mentioned in an earlier post was not applicable to my EOS and that my Speedo was "in spec". So I guess I will just know that when the speedo says I am going 75 MPH I am really only going 72.2 MPH and make the adjustment in my head when setting the cruise control.

They gave me a stupid handout saying why an average driver can't test a speedo accurately using interstate mile markers. This after I TOLD them I was checking against a Garmin GPS navigation system over long distances.

Fred's prediction on how this would turn out was dead on I am sorry to say.

Randy
White 2007 EOS 2.0T 18" rollers 6 spd DSG Tranny - love the toggle shifters!

 

[hostingdude]

What's the result of this? Is this problem fixed for 2008 or not?

Here's why I ask: (Please assist if you know.)

I am considering buying a 2008 Eos Komfort for my kids, and the tires on it are worn to the indicators. They are Nexen (vomit!) brand and I wouldn't let my dog drive such a death-shoed vehicle.

I have a set of Goodyear Eagle GTs in my garage that, for long and convoluted reasons, never went on my '93 Honda del sol si, and remain brand new, properly stored, free of dry-rot, and having never touched pavement. I thought I'd shoe the 2008 Eos with these Goodyear Eagles.

Problem here: Tire size needed for stock 16" alloys on 2008 Eos Komfort is: 215/55R16. My Eagles are 205/50R16. A lower profile tire. The charts tell me that the circumference difference is 79.5" vs. 75.6", or almost exactly 5 percent SMALLER new tires in terms of rolling distance.

Thus, if the speedo is exactly correct now, based on the difference, the speedo will read:

20 MPH when the car is actually going 19.1 MPH
30 MPH when the car is actually going 28.6 MPH
40 MPH when the car is actually going 38.1 MPH
50 MPH when the car is actually going 47.6 MPH
60 MPH when the car is actually going 57.2 MPH
70 MPH when the car is actually going 66.7 MPH
80 MPH when the car is actually going 76.2 MPH
90 MPH when the car is actually going 85.7 MPH

Thus, using these smaller tires will cause the car to "think" (and report) that it's traversing 100 miles when it's really only traversing 95 miles. However, if this 2008 EOS Komfort is ALREADY OVER-REPORTING its mileage (and speed) by 3 percent, I've now compounded that by 5 percent more, for a total just a smidge over 8 percent -- a significant difference.

I can see this two ways:

a.) OK, this is fine. My kids will, of course, violate speed limits, as all kids do, but they won't be violating them by as much, since they'll look at the speedometer and it will tell them they're going 8 percent faster than they're really going. They can brag to their friends: "I had that thing up to 90 yesterday on the highway" and really they only hit about 83. Dad feels better. (Sure, mileage racks up faster than actually driven miles, but since I'll keep this thing for them throughout high school and college, until it's dead, I don't really care what the odometer says.)

b.) This is a problem -- anything this far off (8 percent) is damn noticeable and thus they'll ignore the speedo and drive fast anyway. Plus, maybe I'll take out a 3-year/36k mile warranty on this 2008 beastie and then I will want accuracy on the odometer.

This all begs yet ANOTHER question for you:

Tires WEAR and get smaller in diameter/circumference. I wonder how much wear has come off of an 80" circumference tire when it hits the wear marks, and when it hits minimum legal tread (only 1/16th of an inch here in Florida -- that's a shockingly small 1.5mm minimum tread required - Wow!).

I guess I'm going to try to answer this one myself right here and calc as I go: I've read that starting tread depth is 10/32-11/32 of an inch, so the tire tread loses about 1/3rd of an inch over its full life.

That 1/3" of lost radius translates to just over 2" of circumference lost on fully-worn stock tires for the 2008 Eos, dropping C from 79.5" to about 77.3" meaning that my new Goodyear Eagle tires at 75.6" are now only about 2.2 percent off of the size of fully used stock Eos tires.

Now that we consider the normal wear, the difference doesn't seem so big, at least until these smaller new tires wear down to the minimums (but I'd replace them long before then), but if I let them just stay on, then I'm back to 5-8 percent difference, depending on whether or not the 2008 Eos has that same speedometer/odometer problem as the 2007 : underestimating speed and overestimating mileage (i.e., overestimating tire size).

I did the math here mostly in my head (whatever part I didn't get from the tire size charts), but I'm pretty sure it's fairly accurate.

Any thoughts on doing this? Again, I'm thinking of putting 205/50R16s on a 2008 Eos in place of its current, mostly worn 215/55r16 Nexen (junk!) that need to come off anyway.

Opinions welcome. Please read my full post before writing about something I've already covered carefully and in a mathematically correct manner.

Thanks,

Nelson

2012 Eos Executive, Black Oak Brown, Black Interior, Every Conceivable Option, built for US market.
- (Considering) 2008 Eos Komfort for the kiddies to drive.

 

[David Paul]

What's the result of this? Is this problem fixed for 2008 or not?

Here's why I ask: (Please assist if you know.)

I am considering buying a 2008 Eos Komfort for my kids, and the tires on it are worn to the indicators. They are Nexen (vomit!) brand and I wouldn't let my dog drive such a death-shoed vehicle.

I have a set of Goodyear Eagle GTs in my garage that, for long and convoluted reasons, never went on my '93 Honda del sol si, and remain brand new, properly stored, free of dry-rot, and having never touched pavement. I thought I'd shoe the 2008 Eos with these Goodyear Eagles.

Problem here: Tire size needed for stock 16" alloys on 2008 Eos Komfort is: 215/55R16. My Eagles are 205/50R16. A lower profile tire. The charts tell me that the circumference difference is 79.5" vs. 75.6", or almost exactly 5 percent SMALLER new tires in terms of rolling distance.

Thus, if the speedo is exactly correct now, based on the difference, the speedo will read:

20 MPH when the car is actually going 19.1 MPH
30 MPH when the car is actually going 28.6 MPH
40 MPH when the car is actually going 38.1 MPH
50 MPH when the car is actually going 47.6 MPH
60 MPH when the car is actually going 57.2 MPH
70 MPH when the car is actually going 66.7 MPH
80 MPH when the car is actually going 76.2 MPH
90 MPH when the car is actually going 85.7 MPH

Thus, using these smaller tires will cause the car to "think" (and report) that it's traversing 100 miles when it's really only traversing 95 miles. However, if this 2008 EOS Komfort is ALREADY OVER-REPORTING its mileage (and speed) by 3 percent, I've now compounded that by 5 percent more, for a total just a smidge over 8 percent -- a significant difference.

I can see this two ways:

a.) OK, this is fine. My kids will, of course, violate speed limits, as all kids do, but they won't be violating them by as much, since they'll look at the speedometer and it will tell them they're going 8 percent faster than they're really going. They can brag to their friends: "I had that thing up to 90 yesterday on the highway" and really they only hit about 83. Dad feels better. (Sure, mileage racks up faster than actually driven miles, but since I'll keep this thing for them throughout high school and college, until it's dead, I don't really care what the odometer says.)

b.) This is a problem -- anything this far off (8 percent) is damn noticeable and thus they'll ignore the speedo and drive fast anyway. Plus, maybe I'll take out a 3-year/36k mile warranty on this 2008 beastie and then I will want accuracy on the odometer.

This all begs yet ANOTHER question for you:

Tires WEAR and get smaller in diameter/circumference. I wonder how much wear has come off of an 80" circumference tire when it hits the wear marks, and when it hits minimum legal tread (only 1/16th of an inch here in Florida -- that's a shockingly small 1.5mm minimum tread required - Wow!).

I guess I'm going to try to answer this one myself right here and calc as I go: I've read that starting tread depth is 10/32-11/32 of an inch, so the tire tread loses about 1/3rd of an inch over its full life.

That 1/3" of lost radius translates to just over 2" of circumference lost on fully-worn stock tires for the 2008 Eos, dropping C from 79.5" to about 77.3" meaning that my new Goodyear Eagle tires at 75.6" are now only about 2.2 percent off of the size of fully used stock Eos tires.

Now that we consider the normal wear, the difference doesn't seem so big, at least until these smaller new tires wear down to the minimums (but I'd replace them long before then), but if I let them just stay on, then I'm back to 5-8 percent difference, depending on whether or not the 2008 Eos has that same speedometer/odometer problem as the 2007 : underestimating speed and overestimating mileage (i.e., overestimating tire size).

I did the math here mostly in my head (whatever part I didn't get from the tire size charts), but I'm pretty sure it's fairly accurate.

Any thoughts on doing this? Again, I'm thinking of putting 205/50R16s on a 2008 Eos in place of its current, mostly worn 215/55r16 Nexen (junk!) that need to come off anyway.

Opinions welcome. Please read my full post before writing about something I've already covered carefully and in a mathematically correct manner.

Thanks,

Nelson

2012 Eos Executive, Black Oak Brown, Black Interior, Every Conceivable Option, built for US market.
- (Considering) 2008 Eos Komfort for the kiddies to drive.

Although my speedo is quite accurate and I have never needed to adjust it, there is a product that will allow you to do so.

I do own this product because it has many benefits for those who own VWs and Audis by allowing changes to the main computer plus important diagnosing.

It will also allow you to adjust your speedo computer to accommodate errors.

Here is the web site. Like I said, I have never tweaked my speedo but with the Ross-Tech interface cable, it can be done very easily.

Call them and ask for advice. They are extremely helpful and very service oriented.

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/

 

[silvershadow]

Just calibrate your speedometer using a GPS and then use Vagcom [Ross-Tech interface] to adjust the correction so the speedometer readings match the GPS readings [or show a higher speed if you want to discourage your kids].

No need for complicated calculations and easy to change settings if necessary after replacing tyres

 

[xxxxxxxxxxredboyjan]

The UK law is based on the EU standard, with some minor changes. A speedo must never show less than the actual speed, and must never show more than 110% of actual speed + 6.25mph. So if your true speed is 40mph, your speedo could legally be reading up to 50.25mph but never less than 40mph. Or to put it another way, if your speedo is reading 50mph, you won’t be doing more than 50mph but it’s possible you might actually only be travelling at 40mph.

To ensure that they comply with the law and make sure that their speedometers are never showing less than true speed under any forseeable circumstances, car manufacturers will normally deliberately calibrate their speedos to read ‘high’ by a certain amount.

Probly the same in the US, manufacturers avoiding being sued by lawyers

 

[voxmagna]

I leave my EOS speedo as it is slightly optimistic, but when I'm driving the car and pushing the envelope I'm looking at the satnav speed.

On U.K motorways I'm starting to dislike other cars with cruise control. When they enter a roadworks restriction with speed limits, average speed cams and closed off lanes they turn on their cruise, but I'm clocking them on the satnav doing 3-4 mph less when at around 50-60 mph.

Funny thing about speedo accuracy is I've found manufacturers of the small engine/small cars are always at the extreme end of their optimistic tolerance band.

When you cannot easily correct a speedo is when they are in error by different percentages around the scale. That is why the internal moving coil movement has those slotted pieces around the magnet assembly, so you can achieve non-linear correction. But you don't want to go messing there, unless you can do bench testing with a signal generator. For U.K 30 and 40 mph are probably the most important marks to have right.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxredboyjan]

All the speedos of cars manufactured in the UK are made at one company in Nottingham. Manufacturers don't make speedos

 

[voxmagna]

That must be why they are not accurate then.

Where in the U.K do VW manufacture the EOS?

U.K do make and install lots of speed cameras to catch those with the inaccurate speedos.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxredboyjan]

I thought VWs were built in Portugal?

 

[hostingdude]

I thought VWs were built in Portugal?

The EOS is produced at AutoEuropa in Portugal. It was a joint-venture manufacturing plant by Ford and VW. According to Wikipedia (for what it's worth), the plant originally produced Volkswagen Sharan, SEAT Alhambra, and Ford Galaxy, all for (primarily) the European market.

Surrounding the AutoEuropa plant are a myriad of suppliers who manufacture (some of the) component parts there as well.

Ford left the venture around 2005, and VW put EOS production there, as well as the car that replaced the VW Sirocco in about 2008.

As far as engineering and design goes, the EOS, to me, just screams "Audi" -- look at the styling similarities with Audi's 4-pax ragtop, and ask your VW mechanic how many of the parts in an EOS have a duplicate Audi part number and the part comes to them stamped with both Audi and VW part numbers on it.

The fit and finish of my 2012 EOS is astounding to me -- as fine as any German car I've owned or driven, of the same type. It's very refined in its driving characteristics, with sufficient softness on bumps at lower speeds, while still feeling sporty; yet it feels more full-blown Euro-sporty at higher speeds as various components such as steering, suspension, stability control, etc., automatically adjust and handling characteristics are quite good -- no real mush to be felt when putting down WOT or on hairpin curves, especially with the top down and the weight distribution lower.

I love my EOS and would put it up against the 4-pax Audi ragtop. What little the Audi may have that trumps the EOS in handling characteristics (less top-heavy due to cloth top vs. real metal), the EOS wins out with its genius retractable hard-top, which obviates the constant problems you'll have with soft-top convertibles: security, vandalism, decay, mold, wavy-cloth appearance, smells in the fabric, and the worst enemy: time.

Yeah, I'll take my German-designed, Portuguese-built EOS any day.

If somebody has more information on what else is made today on that AutoEuropa production line, please elaborate, and/or correct anything I've written here.

 

[David Paul]

Seriously??

I thought VWs were built in Portugal?

Yes, the Eos is manufactured in Portugal.

Okay, what company manufacturers the speedo for the U.K.,what manufacturer makes the speedos for north America and what manufacturer makes the speedos for Asia, etc., etc., and so on? You obviously have the answers.

I really want to know since this could be a true revelation to me. I am never too old to learn and am always willing to be educated.

I live in the good old U.S of A. and my Eos speedometer is totally accurate according to my Eos GPS and my CC GPS while being followed by my wife driving the CC.

According to the specs for my 2013 CC Sport, this car was built in Germany and all parts were supplied from Germany.

According to my 2009 Eos specs, which was assembled in Portugal, all parts were supplied from Germany and Portugal.

Both of my cars, including my 2013 CC, have accurate speedometers and none of the speedos were manufactured in the United States of America. Go figure, huh?

Are my cars just one of a kind??? Perhaps I should put them in a museum.

Seriously, please inform me of the facts because I always want to be as accurate as possible when posting on this forum. No doubt, you are as astute as I hope to be someday.

Thanks in advance for your forth coming information.

David <><