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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I have a 2007 EOS with Dynaudio and would like to upgrade to a RCD330, yet many or most RCD330 'do not support Dynaudio'. (even 187B) Is there an RCD330 that does support Dynaudio? Ideally with rear camera and 'back USB'.

I am expecting as well that I will need to use a CAN buss adapter.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Hello,

I have a 2007 EOS with Dynaudio and would like to upgrade to a RCD330, yet many or most RCD330 'do not support Dynaudio'. (even 187B) Is there an RCD330 that does support Dynaudio? Ideally with rear camera and 'back USB'.

I am expecting as well that I will need to use a CAN buss adapter.

Thanks in advance.
Everything you need to know about which one to buy and how to get it to work with the Dynaudio amplifier


Rear USB is a custom modified unit, these guys build them

 

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I'm just switching to a Chinese Android and I've pretty much verified the hardware and software inside my box now, but for my curiosity, are people talking about genuine V.W badged RCDs, or something the Chinese sell and pass off as the same and sell on Ebay? Personally I could't live without embedded satnav, but the RNS series seemed rather outdated on features and runs with expensive V.W map software, hence my decision to go Android.

IMHO what's in these Chinese boxes may not be what you expect if we are talking about multiple speaker amplifier outputs with processing. Although they can get up to tricks providing labelled rear panel amplifier connections not split or filtered, but coming from the same pair of channels.
 

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I'm just switching to a Chinese Android and I've pretty much verified the hardware and software inside my box now, but for my curiosity, are people talking about genuine V.W badged RCDs, or something the Chinese sell and pass off as the same and sell on Ebay? Personally I could't live without embedded satnav, but the RNS series seemed rather outdated on features and runs with expensive V.W map software, hence my decision to go Android.

IMHO what's in these Chinese boxes may not be what you expect if we are talking about multiple speaker amplifier outputs with processing. Although they can get up to tricks providing labelled rear panel amplifier connections not split or filtered, but coming from the same pair of channels.
Never seen a RCD330 knockoff, they are cheap enough, can't imagine why anyone would bother trying to engineer a knockoff. These are authentic VW units, designed for the Chinese market, no frills touch screen with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto and they are plug n play for the most part, to get steering wheel controls function, you do need the inline canbus simulator, which also eliminates any possibility of power drain on older Mk5's. They are recognized and seen by VCDS and you can do some programming of sorts, like switching between rear view camera and backup sensors. You have to do some VCDS tweaking to get this to work with the Dynaudio system, most sellers just say the RCD330 is not compatible with the Dynaudio system, due to the extra steps needed to get it functioning correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm just switching to a Chinese Android and I've pretty much verified the hardware and software inside my box now, but for my curiosity, are people talking about genuine V.W badged RCDs, or something the Chinese sell and pass off as the same and sell on Ebay? Personally I could't live without embedded satnav, but the RNS series seemed rather outdated on features and runs with expensive V.W map software, hence my decision to go Android.

IMHO what's in these Chinese boxes may not be what you expect if we are talking about multiple speaker amplifier outputs with processing. Although they can get up to tricks providing labelled rear panel amplifier connections not split or filtered, but coming from the same pair of channels.
VoxMagna,
No, I am not expecting to integrate a knockoff android RCD330 into a Dynaudio system but rather a 'noname' RCD330 (allowing firmware updates and access via CAN buss) with a CAN buss adapter that will allow me to access the steering wheel controls etc. The in-deck electronic crossover functions are an important part of the functionality that I am looking for, otherwise I would be sending full spectrum sound to all channels in the Amp, at power, which is just a waste of power and likely to destroy the tweeters w/o installing a passive X-over between the amp and the tweeter, and the amp as well after time.

Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
2phast,
I have looked at the videos you have done on the Infinity speaker replacements for the EOS (thanks for doing them, very helpful!) and was wondering how much depth you had behind the 6.5 woofers (approximately). I am looking at replacing a few blown Dynaudio speakers and trying to select the replacements prior to taking the door panels off and doing the actual work. The Infinity 60.11CS are 53mm deep, I am looking at Focals or maybe BLAM, the BLAMs are 80.2mm deep, about an extra inch relative to the Infinity 60.11cs.

Based on your feedback above I ordered an RCD330 (noname 187B) from Lemonshark, and I plan on replacing all 10 speakers.
 

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'Sounds' like a lot of work to do? I've just re-engineered my EOS radio antenna system for AM/FM & UKDAB plus. That's a lot of work to because Chinese car antennae electronics sold all over Ebay is pretty rubbish and I've tested a lot. I have to make my own preamps. I hope you make out better.

Dynaudio seems to be the holy grail of upgrades, but I have to say to my less-discerning old ears, the new equaliser with latest sound chips and synthetic time delayed rear sound in my new Android 10 box with 50 watts max D power per channel, isn't bad on the stockers. But I'm not going to use it and fry the bass units.
 

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2phast,
I have looked at the videos you have done on the Infinity speaker replacements for the EOS (thanks for doing them, very helpful!) and was wondering how much depth you had behind the 6.5 woofers (approximately). I am looking at replacing a few blown Dynaudio speakers and trying to select the replacements prior to taking the door panels off and doing the actual work. The Infinity 60.11CS are 53mm deep, I am looking at Focals or maybe BLAM, the BLAMs are 80.2mm deep, about an extra inch relative to the Infinity 60.11cs.

Based on your feedback above I ordered an RCD330 (noname 187B) from Lemonshark, and I plan on replacing all 10 speakers.
The Dynaudios are actually pretty good. Have you tried sourcing replacements for them? If it were me, I would replace the head unit with a high quality aftermarket one and integrated it with the Dynaudio amp first and see how that works out.

The front 6.5" speakers get mounted in the plastic frames of the original speakers, which mount to the outer shell of the door panel. Depth when used in this configuration was not a concern, the magnet of the Infinity did not even go past the bottom of the frame. You definitely could go deeper, directly into the door panel but unfortunately, I can say how far, never took any of those measurements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
'Sounds' like a lot of work to do? I've just re-engineered my EOS radio antenna system for AM/FM & UKDAB plus. That's a lot of work to because Chinese car antennae electronics sold all over Ebay is pretty rubbish and I've tested a lot. I have to make my own preamps. I hope you make out better.

Dynaudio seems to be the holy grail of upgrades, but I have to say to my less-discerning old ears, the new equaliser with latest sound chips and synthetic time delayed rear sound in my new Android 10 box with 50 watts max D power per channel, isn't bad on the stockers. But I'm not going to use it and fry the bass units.
If your aftermarket head is putting out 50W RMS that would be plenty! The Dynaudio/Lear amp, the one that folks seem to think puts out 600W (from a 30 Amp fuse?), is running TDA7575 chips that put out 28W into 4 Ohms, at 10% THD (distortion) and TDA8920TH chips that put out 35W at 10%, assuming +/- 25 v rails from the SMPS in the amp, so much less power than your 50 Watts when at reasonable distortion levels.
 

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'Sounds' like a lot of work to do? I've just re-engineered my EOS radio antenna system for AM/FM & UKDAB plus. That's a lot of work to because Chinese car antennae electronics sold all over Ebay is pretty rubbish and I've tested a lot. I have to make my own preamps. I hope you make out better.

Dynaudio seems to be the holy grail of upgrades, but I have to say to my less-discerning old ears, the new equaliser with latest sound chips and synthetic time delayed rear sound in my new Android 10 box with 50 watts max D power per channel, isn't bad on the stockers. But I'm not going to use it and fry the bass units.
IMO, I would configure the outputs of your head unit to limit the frequencies going to your front/rear speakers. I don't know if your unit has internal crossovers like the Pioneer I am using, but with the Infinities install in my car, I used the supplied passive crossovers, which limit frequencies going to the tweeters and mid-woofers, but these passive crossovers don't create a band-pass on the mid-woofers, so they receive all of the low frequencies, which is the major cause of speaker failure. I configured the Pioneer to only send frequencies above 180hz to my front/rear speakers. My active subwoofer provides all frequencies from 180hz and below.

The lack of equalization and DSP functionality and the low, poor quality power of the RCD330 are its major drawbacks.

The Pioneers not only provide extensive equalization, but its DSP functionality is excellent. Using a optional microphone plugged into the Pioneer and mounted at the drivers headrest, you can run through a optimization mode which send pink noise through all of the speakers, one at a time. The Pioneer analyzes this and sets the EQ and balances automatically. Optimized specifically for the drivers seat. You can then if so desired tweak the EQ settings to your own tastes.

 

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I'm not swayed by brand names but some in car components have considerably improved over the older designs. They cost more, but if you can get them in the right size, drive units with neodymium magnets are superior and you can get more cone movement from a stronger shallower magnet. I wouldn't choose it for home hi-fi, but when bass and sub bass is what most want in a car, D-power amps are far smaller, more efficient and run cooler.
EOS doors have a habit of getting water inside but I've noticed the stock speaker cones seem quite robust, not sure if they coated them or not?
 

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If your aftermarket head is putting out 50W RMS that would be plenty! The Dynaudio/Lear amp, the one that folks seem to think puts out 600W (from a 30 Amp fuse?), is running TDA7575 chips that put out 28W into 4 Ohms, at 10% THD (distortion) and TDA8920TH chips that put out 35W at 10%, assuming +/- 25 v rails from the SMPS in the amp, so much less power than your 50 Watts when at reasonable distortion levels.
50 watt is probably max, not RMS. Even the aftermarket double din sized Pioneers only output only output 22 watts x 4 RMS and their max is rated at 50 watt x 4 at 4 ohm. It is though, plenty of power for four speakers, especially if you pay attention to the efficiency rating of the speakers. The higher the efficiency, the less power you actually need to achieve a specific decibel level. A speaker with a efficiency of 88 (one watt at one meter) would need double the power fed to it to achieve a efficiency of 91. So with low wattage sources like the internal amplifier of a head unit, always choose the most efficient speakers you can find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The Dynaudios are actually pretty good. Have you tried sourcing replacements for them? If it were me, I would replace the head unit with a high quality aftermarket one and integrated it with the Dynaudio amp first and see how that works out.

The front 6.5" speakers get mounted in the plastic frames of the original speakers, which mount to the outer shell of the door panel. Depth when used in this configuration was not a concern, the magnet of the Infinity did not even go past the bottom of the frame. You definitely could go deeper, directly into the door panel but unfortunately, I can say how far, never took any of those measurements.
Thanks for your quick response, it is helpful. Yes, I have considered Dynaudio replacements, but they are rather expensive new. The issue with used ones is that you really don't know what you are getting, and if they are from an EOS they have probably been wet! I have Ohm'd mine out and I have 5 or 6 that are either open or the wiring is damaged. The amp was shot from water damage, it blew the power supply.
From what I can tell (please correct me if you have better info!):
Esotar 650s are ~$1300 CDN per pair
Esotec ~$600 per pair
Esotan ~$500 per pair.

The grade of speaker in the EOS seems to be comparable to the current Esotec range, so that's about $1500 worth of new Dynaudio gear! (did someone say the VW speakers were cheap?!?!)

Still in the 'homework' phase.
 

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Thanks, yes I'm going to build some passive X overs. My basic stock bass units are connected to the amps and the single HF tweeters are driven via a capacitor, which is poor and only giving 6dB per octave slope. The head unit equaliser seems to have a lot of frequency sliders. The thing that kills low frequency units isn't just power which most interpret as loudness. It's distorted low frequencies and synthetic 'music'. Once smooth sinusoids become clipped flat tops, speakers burn out easily.

I'm familiar with surround sound auto setup testing which is common in home theater systems. It's actually a requirement to get a certified Dolby badge. Unfortunately in a car it can't be perfect due to high ambient noise levels, particularly when the top is down or you change the number of people sat in the car.. There's very little position contribution from low frequency speakers and it matters less where they are.
 

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Hello,

I have a 2007 EOS with Dynaudio and would like to upgrade to a RCD330, yet many or most RCD330 'do not support Dynaudio'. (even 187B) Is there an RCD330 that does support Dynaudio? Ideally with rear camera and 'back USB'.

I am expecting as well that I will need to use a CAN buss adapter.

Thanks in advance.
This is what I wrote before for a similar post regarding RCD330. Not sure if it'd be any help, but I have replaced my EOS(2009)'s original RCD510 unit + Dynaudio speakers for the RCD330, that fit perfect although it does look different as this is much newer unit with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto. I also installed the Canbus Gateway Simulator Adapter for the multifunction steering wheel button control, so the bluetooth phone call, which never worked before, functions now. There are a number of places in China, that sell the RCD330 units for EOS (and other cars), so that you'd best research before ordering. Attached photo of the new unit, and also inserted link, where I purchased from. 280.79US $ 28% OFF|Lexucar RCD330 Plus Car Radio Android Auto Carplay MirrorLink NONAME 6RF035187F R340G For VW Tiguan Golf 5 6 MK5 MK6 Passat Polo|Car Radios| - AliExpress

Car Vehicle Radio Gear shift Satellite radio
 

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50 watt is probably max, not RMS. Even the aftermarket double din sized Pioneers only output only output 22 watts x 4 RMS
Are pioneers using D amps? What size fuse do they fit?

Double DIN is no longer a guide to amp goodness when D-amps are used. My HU is double DIN in outline and screen but only an inch (V slim) deep!
Mine says: Android 10 DSP
Pro 5.1 channel DSP, equipped with DTS HiFi digital audio authorization. Surround sound,
Trubass, Phantom Center and other modes to achieve 5.1-channel surround sound. This
technology can adjust the surround sound up and down, greatly reduce its own noise, maximize

It claims 50W X4 which could be peak or music power rated, more likely to be music power. Most Chinese Android HUs claim 4x45W and 4X50W tells you have the latest chips and DSP. They fit a 20 amp fuse and the standby no audio power is 1 amp. Assuming about 90% efficiency for D amps, they could be running rms? It's off the test bench now when I could have put a test load on it, but it puts out more in the car than my ears (and speakers) find comfortable. I bought a Chinese D power stereo amp small enough to fit in my hand. Hooked it up to a pair of Spendors and it was on a par for volume with a Quad 303. BUT the mid to HF harmonic distortion on the D amp is higher than A/B because a lot depends on the power supply source and filtering.
 

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Thanks for your quick response, it is helpful. Yes, I have considered Dynaudio replacements, but they are rather expensive new. The issue with used ones is that you really don't know what you are getting, and if they are from an EOS they have probably been wet! I have Ohm'd mine out and I have 5 or 6 that are either open or the wiring is damaged. The amp was shot from water damage, it blew the power supply.
From what I can tell (please correct me if you have better info!):
Esotar 650s are ~$1300 CDN per pair
Esotec ~$600 per pair
Esotan ~$500 per pair.

The grade of speaker in the EOS seems to be comparable to the current Esotec range, so that's about $1500 worth of new Dynaudio gear! (did someone say the VW speakers were cheap?!?!)

Still in the 'homework' phase.
The Dynaudio's are not paper cone, so I wouldn't expect any water damage.

You can always opt for another quality replacement, I like the Infinities, used them in several cars, not the best sounding I have listed to, but I would give them a 8 out of 10 and the biggest sell point is they won't break the bank like a Focal, Morel or Dynaudio would.
 

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Are pioneers using D amps? What size fuse do they fit?

Double DIN is no longer a guide to amp goodness when D-amps are used. My HU is double DIN in outline and screen but only an inch (V slim) deep!
Mine says: Android 10 DSP
Pro 5.1 channel DSP, equipped with DTS HiFi digital audio authorization. Surround sound,
Trubass, Phantom Center and other modes to achieve 5.1-channel surround sound. This
technology can adjust the surround sound up and down, greatly reduce its own noise, maximize

It claims 50W X4 which could be peak or music power rated, more likely to be music power. Most Chinese Android HUs claim 4x45W and 4X50W tells you have the latest chips and DSP. They fit a 20 amp fuse and the standby no audio power is 1 amp. Assuming about 90% efficiency for D amps, they could be running rms? It's off the test bench now when I could have put a test load on it, but it puts out more in the car than my ears (and speakers) find comfortable. I bought a Chinese D power stereo amp small enough to fit in my hand. Hooked it up to a pair of Spendors and it was on a par for volume with a Quad 303. BUT the mid to HF harmonic distortion on the D amp is higher than A/B because a lot depends on the power supply source and filtering.
All of the Pioneers have Mosfet internal amplifiers, 14 watts RMS CTA-2006/50 peak x 4 channels. I have no idea if its a Class D. All of the Pioneers have 10 amp fuses.

If the manufacture is not adhering to the CTA-2006 standard, you don't really know what your buying.
 

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Thanks, yes I'm going to build some passive X overs. My basic stock bass units are connected to the amps and the single HF tweeters are driven via a capacitor, which is poor and only giving 6dB per octave slope. The head unit equaliser seems to have a lot of frequency sliders. The thing that kills low frequency units isn't just power which most interpret as loudness. It's distorted low frequencies and synthetic 'music'. Once smooth sinusoids become clipped flat tops, speakers burn out easily.

I'm familiar with surround sound auto setup testing which is common in home theater systems. It's actually a requirement to get a certified Dolby badge. Unfortunately in a car it can't be perfect due to high ambient noise levels, particularly when the top is down or you change the number of people sat in the car.. There's very little position contribution from low frequency speakers and it matters less where they are.
You can't really compare any home sound system to a vehicle sound system. In a vehicle, your sitting off axis and rarely are speakers aimed directly at you. Adjusting the time delay is paramount, along with the signal level. In the past, when DSP was young (for automobiles) you had to use a measuring stick to determine how far the speakers were from the driver and input this data manually and there was no auto level adjustments, you had to adjust it by ear.
 
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