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Discussion starter · #21 ·
The mechanic found the ABS module is bad. We are sending it out to be rebuilt. The rebuild will cost $220 and the labor will be 3.5 hours. So much for an easy/cheap fix. I will update in a couple of weeks when the car is back on the road.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
If you did the work yourself you would realise that just removing and replacing the unit with all the brake line and bleeding work to do is easily worth the 3.5 hours labor.
I don't doubt that and I am limited on what repairs I can do in the parking lot of my condo.
 
If you did the work yourself you would realise that just removing and replacing the unit with all the brake line and bleeding work to do is easily worth the 3.5 hours labor.
It's not too bad a job. The ABS unit is quite accessible, at least for RHD vehicles. Bleeding needs VCDS or similar to run the ABS pump and you can do it single handed with a pressure bottle. You bleed the front and then the back so no need for two sets of stands either.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
It has been six weeks and wanted to give an update. My mechanic removed the module and sent it to Upfix to rebuild. It was supposed to take 10-12 days to return and it finally came back after 4 weeks. It was reinstalled, but still did not work correctly. They say they test everything they send back. So much for that. Sent it back to Upfix, they just returned it saying the module is not repairable. I needed a car so I had the mechanic re-install the faulty module, thinking it would be like before - ABS light would come on every couple of days and I would clear the code. No other issues. Now all the warning lights are on - ESC, Tire light, CEL, traction, and of course ABS and a flashing brake light. The speedometer doesn't work, the fuel gauge is not working correctly and the top does not work. I can't clear the codes. How can a faulty ABS module effect the speedometer and the top?
 
You have to be realistic using rebuild firms. They wouldn't have the same sophistocated and expensive equipment to test every software feature in these complex units. This is why you buy a new part from V.W which comes in a sealed bag and once opened cannot be returned. Most refurbers do what the Johny Cash song says - Take a used part from here and there, give them a good clean and wash, put power on the module and if it doesn't blow a fuse, sell it and let the customer tell you if it's faulty!

The ABS unit gets data pulses from all 4 road wheel sensors. If the unit isn't working the speedo will be dead. The V.W fuel meter is a computer which requires distance travelled to calculate its values. No wheel sensors = no distance readings = no fuel meter readout. The top cannot be opened when the car is moving more than about 7mph. Without that speed input the top controller probably goes into safe mode, locks you out and stops working?

There's already a lot of info in this thread from me. You probably thought going to an ABS module repairer was the best move - new lamps for old? I suggested you try to find a used take off from a similar year and with the same V.W part number. I have one on my garage shelf as an emergency spare should I need it.

I'm not sure if your mechanic really started right at the beginning? If any one of 4 wheel sensors is faulty (The odds are high) then the ABS goes into fault mode. You said the problem started as intermittent and that should have been the clue. If a wheel bearing wears or rust gets trapped in one wheel sensor, the ABS will fault, but your mechanic should have tried clearing the ABS fault and reading out each speed sensor. Usually V.W compatible diagnostics will log a wheel sensor fault? You said you were clearing faults, but what faults were stored before clearing them?

Now you could have made your problem worse because you don't know what parts they swapped inside (e.g the control board) and I'm not sure if you would ever get your original module back, because they could have cannibalised it for parts?

You now need an ABS unit you know works and hasn't been interfered with - that's either a genuine new Dealer or reseller discounted part, or a good used part of the same part number. Then start looking at the wheel sensor outputs and kick yourself and the mechanic if you find one faulty!
 
Discussion starter · #31 · (Edited)
Yes, the mechanic felt comfortable with repairing the module. The company was horrible to work with. I am not entirely convinced there was even an attempt to repair the module. The only fault code I picked up was the 01130 code. I assume the mechanic checked the wheel sensors before concluding the module was bad, but have no way to verify. I can only go by what he told me. I didn't get a chance to talk to the mechanic when I picked the car up, but am stopping by today. So at the very least I need either a new or used ABS module. There appears an original module (1K0-907-375-AP) and a newer version (1K0-907-375-AH). The older module seems to cost about half the newer module. I found the older module online for about $500 and the newer one online for about $900-1000.. Can I use the older module? I am not sure if I can get the mechanic to install a part I order. He mentioned $2100 for a new module from the local dealer. I assume a remanufactured module would not be desirable? Any insight into locating a used module in the US? How much should I expect to pay to program another module (new or used)? Does this need to be done at dealer? Should I be looking for another mechanic?
Thanks for your help.
 
Going back you need to understand how the ABS dash warning is given and what it means. There are 2 modes I'll call 'hard' and 'soft'. When you first turn the key after the dash lamp check if the ABS light comes on there's a hard fault. That means there's a wire disconnect or hard sensor fault or something similar in the ABS electronic module. If the ABS warning doesn't come on until you drive the car I regard that as a soft fault. The ABS system has passed the key on self check saying it's o.k. But when the car moves or you press on the brake it isn't responding to inputs. That would point to a physical problem with a wheel sensor.

ABS units have very complex internal electronics and internal software. Their internal firmware will be factory programmed to provide the ABS braking needed for different vehicles with different weights and brake parts. You have to be careful to match both the V.W part number AND the internal software version and both should be compatible when you source parts from a dealer against your VIN number. Essentially these parts have the personality of your car. Whilst several ABS module versions may put out a fault light, this doesn't mean they will operate your brakes correctly in an emergency.

I don't know why you are driving your mechanic? You are either working as a DIYer knowing what you are doing or the mechanic knows what he's doing and will source the correct part, fit it and send you the bill? 2 heads with neither knowing what they are doing can only be a disaster.

If you go to a dealer with your VIN number, they should give you the latest V.W part number. But I've suspected for a while that V.W have consolidated some part numbers into a single part replacement that's backwards compatible. You can then try and search on the number they gave you, but since it's their latest, you are unlikely to find it at a very cheap price. However, V.W did hold stock of these as warranty replacements for failed units. I think that was the first one I got because it was brand new.

When you played around with a diagnostics tool you or your mechanic should have scanned and kept a record of the original ABS module information which includes its firmware codes. That would have been helpful to you when searching for a replacement. You would only get the same part and not a later upgraded version. You cannot now scan and trust what's inside the module returned to you. You said all the warning lights come up but you or your mechanic haven't said what diagnostics now reports about the replacement module if it can be read?

I haven't found anything to program in an ABS unit compatible with my EOS. Think about it, would V.W allow DIY simpletons or dealers let loose with a diagnostics tool to modify ABS brake settings? The only thing they might do is produce a 'generic' backwards compatible ABS unit and the dealer would select and reflash it with firmware compatible with your VIN number. If this is the case, there should be a sevice instruction inside the box, but ask them when you enquire for the part number and cost. It's a lot of work to remove and replace these modules so you need to make the right decision.

One tip is you can leave all the hydraulics disconnected and the ABS unit just plugged in. Do the key on, check for faults, scan and check again including wheel sensor output whilst stationary, then you have some confidence it should be o.k when plumbed in. If you do find a used unit, test it like this first and return it if it fails. This assumes your original fault wasn't wiring loom related and still present, but if you see the same fault code again on a different unit you can draw that conclusion.
Good luck with your next decision.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Going back you need to understand how the ABS dash warning is given and what it means. There are 2 modes I'll call 'hard' and 'soft'. When you first turn the key after the dash lamp check if the ABS light comes on there's a hard fault. That means there's a wire disconnect or hard sensor fault or something similar in the ABS electronic module. If the ABS warning doesn't come on until you drive the car I regard that as a soft fault. The ABS system has passed the key on self check saying it's o.k. But when the car moves or you press on the brake it isn't responding to inputs. That would point to a physical problem with a wheel sensor.

ABS units have very complex internal electronics and internal software. Their internal firmware will be factory programmed to provide the ABS braking needed for different vehicles with different weights and brake parts. You have to be careful to match both the V.W part number AND the internal software version and both should be compatible when you source parts from a dealer against your VIN number. Essentially these parts have the personality of your car. Whilst several ABS module versions may put out a fault light, this doesn't mean they will operate your brakes correctly in an emergency.

I don't know why you are driving your mechanic? You are either working as a DIYer knowing what you are doing or the mechanic knows what he's doing and will source the correct part, fit it and send you the bill? 2 heads with neither knowing what they are doing can only be a disaster.

If you go to a dealer with your VIN number, they should give you the latest V.W part number. But I've suspected for a while that V.W have consolidated some part numbers into a single part replacement that's backwards compatible. You can then try and search on the number they gave you, but since it's their latest, you are unlikely to find it at a very cheap price. However, V.W did hold stock of these as warranty replacements for failed units. I think that was the first one I got because it was brand new.

When you played around with a diagnostics tool you or your mechanic should have scanned and kept a record of the original ABS module information which includes its firmware codes. That would have been helpful to you when searching for a replacement. You would only get the same part and not a later upgraded version. You cannot now scan and trust what's inside the module returned to you. You said all the warning lights come up but you or your mechanic haven't said what diagnostics now reports about the replacement module if it can be read?

I haven't found anything to program in an ABS unit compatible with my EOS. Think about it, would V.W allow DIY simpletons or dealers let loose with a diagnostics tool to modify ABS brake settings? The only thing they might do is produce a 'generic' backwards compatible ABS unit and the dealer would select and reflash it with firmware compatible with your VIN number. If this is the case, there should be a sevice instruction inside the box, but ask them when you enquire for the part number and cost. It's a lot of work to remove and replace these modules so you need to make the right decision.

One tip is you can leave all the hydraulics disconnected and the ABS unit just plugged in. Do the key on, check for faults, scan and check again including wheel sensor output whilst stationary, then you have some confidence it should be o.k when plumbed in. If you do find a used unit, test it like this first and return it if it fails. This assumes your original fault wasn't wiring loom related and still present, but if you see the same fault code again on a different unit you can draw that conclusion.
Good luck with your next decision.
Even though all the lights are on, when I scan I only get the original ABS fault code. I'm not sure what codes the mechanic found after re-installing. Would it be better to go with a used module (with a warranty), a new module with the old part number or a new module with the new part number? My mechanic says he can program the new module. Is that something a local mechanic can do? Right now I'm not sure who to trust.
 
When you buy used parts from a Boneyard they rarely test anything. Warranty makes it sound good and they know if it works and stays working they can keep your money. I don't know what programming (adaptation) he expects to do? The only thing I know is there's a diagnostic routine to help with the ABS module install and hydraulic bleeding. But if you fill the pump first, you don't always need it.

Your problem seems to be you got too involved to try and save money and taking that approach puts more liability on you to source the correct working parts and less on your mechanic who still gets paid for the work. If you had said to the mechanic "Tell me what it will cost to fix my car and do it," You agree the estimate, say nothing and it's down to him. Unless you have a lot of DIY knowledge and skills most hand their car over to a Dealer tech., get their estimate and let them get on with it. Trying to advise a mechanic IMHO means you take most of the risks and they keep charging you for work when neither of you have expertise.

I am not sure if I can get the mechanic to install a part I order.
Well it would have to be an Indy, V.W wouldn't touch it and you take the risk as you have done whilst the mechanic keeps charging up for labor with no responsibility for it working. Remember, you and he came to early conclusions that your faults all pointed to the ABS module. You have to trust somebody on that and IMHO I would trust a V.W tech. trained on the car with a wealth of supporting information than an independent mechanic who may just change parts to solve problems.

I'm lucky I may see several used ABS pumps listed on Fleabay most times I look, but then I don't have to wait weeks for shipping to find they aren't suitable. If the opportunity to buy anything in your local was limited, I would have to accept paying more for a certain outcome which I think is what you need at the moment? I have often had to make a similar judgement call on items where I paid more for a dealer part, but I wanted the car back on the road with certainty and no surprises.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
You are absolutely correct in that I presented the mechanic with specific problem and a potential solution. And when it didn't work I told him it was on me. The $400 labor charge to install the module twice was 100% because of me. I do not blame him one bit and I told him so. But on the flip side, this website exists so owners can gather more information about their cars. I don't believe there is ever useless knowledge.

The mechanic called the local VW dealer for a price on a module. It's $2100 and 90 days out. Even he said that was not a realistic option. He does not want to use one of the well-known online German parts store, where an NOS module is $520. He would rather use a somewhat local used parts place he is familiar with. The used module will cost $350. I would rather go with the NOS new module, but at this point I feel I need to stay with this mechanic, so that is not an option. I pushed him into the first solution of trying to repair the module, but he decided on this solution of the used module. I am trying my hardest to stay out of his way and let him do his job, but it is really, really hard. Thanks for all your insight.
 
As long as he takes the decisions, you agree the price and get back a working car, it's down to him sorting it out and at his cost if things go wrong. If I was a mechanic in that position with other easier work, I wouldn't take the risk and only fit a qualified part. If the repair was DIY the choice might be lowest price lowest risk and labor cost is only my time.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I am not entirely convinced he really wants to work on the car. He was to call me yesterday with a complete price for the used part, but never did. I talked the local VW dealer this morning (which I have used before) and talked to them about replacing the ABS module. It would be a little over $2000 and I was a bit shocked when he said he could get the module in a day. My mechanic told me getting a module from this dealer was 90 days out. It may be time to find another mechanic and start over.
 
The Stealer parts price for mine was around ÂŁ650 3 years ago but I didn't pay that. I've discovered they list the electronic control unit as a separate part. The pump motor and fluid block are expensively engineered, unlikely to be faulty and the only thing 'electronic' in there is the pressure sensor. You should get your dealer to break down their parts and labor cost. V.W labor can be very expensive.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
The Stealer parts price for mine was around ÂŁ650 3 years ago but I didn't pay that. I've discovered they list the electronic control unit as a separate part. The pump motor and fluid block are expensively engineered, unlikely to be faulty and the only thing 'electronic' in there is the pressure sensor. You should get your dealer to break down their parts and labor cost. V.W labor can be very expensive.
It was about $1350 for the module and $660 to install and program.
 
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